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Old March 7, 2013, 09:54 PM   #1
The Long Shot
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SCAR vs AR part II The .308s!

Some of you might remember that a few months ago I made a thread based on my own experiences with the SCAR and a DDM4. This is more of a SCAR vs piston SR-25 comparison. The SR-25 type I will be using is, what is in my opinion the best off the rack SR25 type rifles you can get, the POF-USA P308. My tests were 1000 rounds, not including the tests for accuracy.


The SCAR 17 only has a PWS rail extension on it, the rest is completely stock. The SCAR setup comes to a total cost of about $2900 not including optics. The P308 only has a Larue RISR coming to a total of $2560 not including optics.

The SCAR 17 weighs in at 8lbs and the P308 weighs in at 8.7lbs. The P308 has a 16.5" fluted heavy profile barrel and the SCAR has a 16.25" light profile barrel, neither barrel lengths include muzzle devices. The SCAR weighs about 11.2 ounces less than the P308 when both weapons are stock. The P308 would weigh about 9 oz less if it had a light profile barrel, but accuracy would degrade.

The SCAR has a reciprocating charging handle on the left side up front. I personally prefer the AR style charging handle, but that comes down to preference. The SCAR is in my opinion semi ambidextrous because it doesn't have an ambidextrous bolt release. The P308 has an ambi safety, bolt release, and mag release. The charging handle is semi ambidextrous. The SCAR feels a bit bulky. The P308 may look like it has a bulky handguard, but if you held it, it would feel perfect. The SCAR has a folding stock, but for a low price, so can my P308, it just won't be able to fire with it folded. In terms of ergonomics, I'd say the P308 wins.

Now let's talk reliability. First I'll talk about general reliability which is what an average shooter would experience; no extreme conditions. I'd say that both are equal in terms of general reliability as long as you lubricate them. If you don't lubricate them the P308 will be more reliable because of the NP3. For my extreme reliability tests i exposed both rifles to extreme mud, sand, and water conditions. The test consisted of 1000 rounds; 250 water, 250 mud, 500 sand They both did well in the water test, no jams. In mud the P308 failed once due to mud in the chamber. The SCAR jammed 3 times. Durring the sand tests the SCAR jammed 3 times, and the P308 didn't jam. Overall I'd say the P308 is more reliable than the SCAR. The SCAR is still very reliable.

The SCAR shoots around 1.25-1.5MOA, and the P308 shoots sub .5 MOA about every time. This is probably due to the SCAR having a thin profile chromed barrel, and the P308 having a heavy profile match barrel.

In conclusion, if you are looking for a light weight .308 the SCAR is great, but if you're looking for an accurate .308 and are willing to add a few ounces a P308 is perfect. There are other SR25 types out there such as the LR308 which fill about the same role as the SCAR, but I decided to compare the SCAR with the P308 because the LR308 is very much like the AR-15 in my previous comparison between the SCAR 16 and the AR-15. I didn't want this to be redundant. Both are great rifles.

The prices used in this review were based on the prices before obummer messed it up.
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Old March 8, 2013, 08:13 AM   #2
loose_holster_dan
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if i were still single, i'd be keeping my eye out for one of each right now. can't really afford either anymore. good review.
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Old March 8, 2013, 08:26 AM   #3
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The 7.62 AR platform is going to be accurate, DI or piston. The $1200 DPMS can shot as well as the $10K KAC, it's just not as pretty.
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Old March 8, 2013, 09:13 AM   #4
loose_holster_dan
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weight, trigger, and quality of parts are what you are paying more for over a dpms. don't get me wrong, the dpms is a great value. but if you want a light weight, quality rifle with a good trigger, you're going to pay more for it.
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Old March 8, 2013, 10:34 AM   #5
slim9300
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SCAR vs AR part II The .308s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcratebuilder View Post
The 7.62 AR platform is going to be accurate, DI or piston. The $1200 DPMS can shot as well as the $10K KAC, it's just not as pretty.
The SCAR is not an "accurate" rifle in my opinion but that's not really its purpose. When I finally get my .308 caliber AR it will have an 18" or 20" barrel and it will shoot sub 1" groups at 100 yards. The results of this test are somewhat shocking to me. Thanks for the thread.

Heck, I can get 1" groups out of my RRA Entry Tactical (16" barrel) with stock Hornady Predator ammo and a 3x9 Conquest. I can't wait to see what can be done with a nicely setup .308.
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Old March 8, 2013, 05:53 PM   #6
The Long Shot
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Quote:
The 7.62 AR platform is going to be accurate, DI or piston. The $1200 DPMS can shot as well as the $10K KAC, it's just not as pretty
The AR platform is accurate in general, but a $1200 LR308 just won't be at the same level as a $4.5K KAC SR-25 because the overall fit of the KAC is better, it has a match barrel, and a great trigger. A $2500 P308 is more accurate than a KAC SR-25 because of the upper receiver design, believe it or not. The upper receiver on both the Larue OBR and P308 is thicker making them more accurate. The SR-25 is way overpriced.

I can get about 1.25 MOA out of a LR308.
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Old March 8, 2013, 09:39 PM   #7
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SCAR vs AR part II The .308s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long Shot View Post
The AR platform is accurate in general, but a $1200 LR308 just won't be at the same level as a $4.5K KAC SR-25 because the overall fit of the KAC is better, it has a match barrel, and a great trigger. A $2500 P308 is more accurate than a KAC SR-25 because of the upper receiver design, believe it or not. The upper receiver on both the Larue OBR and P308 is thicker making them more accurate. The SR-25 is way overpriced.

I can get about 1.25 MOA out of a LR308.
What do you think about the LAR-8 with the 20" barrel?
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Old March 8, 2013, 11:49 PM   #8
TEXAS TACTICAL
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Nice write up.
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Old March 9, 2013, 02:31 PM   #9
The Long Shot
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Quote:
The SCAR is not an "accurate" rifle in my opinion but that's not really its purpose. When I finally get my .308 caliber AR it will have an 18" or 20" barrel and it will shoot sub 1" groups at 100 yards. The results of this test are somewhat shocking to me. Thanks for the thread.

Heck, I can get 1" groups out of my RRA Entry Tactical (16" barrel) with stock Hornady Predator ammo and a 3x9 Conquest. I can't wait to see what can be done with a nicely setup .308.
What part of it is somewhat shocking to you?

Quote:
What do you think about the LAR-8 with the 20" barrel?
I've never owned a LAR-8, but they are supposed to be quite accurate; the one I shot was. If you're going to get a 20" barrel I'd get one with a free floated heavy profile barrel. The LAR-8 is about all proprietary though. It uses imperial FAL magazines. It's receivers aren't interchangeable with AR-10, DPMS, or SR-25 type receivers. It uses a proprietary barrel nut. If you don't use the right mags you have feeding issues, but RRA makes their own polymer mags.

Now for the confusing part: DPMS pattern rifles use DPMS pattern receivers, SR-25 pattern barrel nuts, and SR-25 magazines; SR-25 pattern rifles use SR-25 pattern mags, SR-25 receivers, and SR-25 barrel nuts; Armalite rifles use all AR-10 pattern parts; RRA pattern .308s use RRA barrel nuts, RRA receivers, and imperial FAL magazines. Most .308 ARs use SR-25 pattern barrel nuts and magazines; but use DPMS pattern receivers. To add to the confusion some companies used to make a different pattern rifle than they do now.
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Last edited by The Long Shot; March 10, 2013 at 08:22 PM.
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Old March 10, 2013, 11:47 AM   #10
slim9300
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SCAR vs AR part II The .308s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long Shot View Post
What part of it is somewhat shocking to you?



I've never owned a LAR-8, but they are supposed to be quite accurate; the one I shot was. If you're going to get a 20" barrel I'd get one with a free floated heavy profile barrel. The LAR-8 is about all proprietary though. It uses imperial FAL magazines. It's receivers aren't interchangeable with AR-10, DPMS, or SR-25 type receivers. It uses a proprietary barrel nut. If you don't use the right mags you have feeding issues, but RRA makes their own polymer mags.

Now for the confusing part: DPMS pattern rifles use DPMS pattern receivers, SR-25 pattern barrel nuts, and SR-15 magazines; SR-25 pattern rifles use SR-25 pattern mags, SR-25 receivers, and SR-25 barrel nuts; Armalite rifles use all AR-10 pattern parts; RRA pattern .308s use RRA barrel nuts, RRA receivers, and imperial FAL magazines. Most .308 ARs use SR-25 pattern barrel nuts and magazines; but use DPMS pattern receivers. To add to the confusion some companies used to make a different pattern rifle than they do now.
I was shocked by the SCAR being less reliable in the conditions you put it through. As you know, there is a ton of hype for this rifles performance in extreme conditions. My dad owns a 5.56 version but rarely shoots it.

...Holy good info Batman. Thanks!

The LAR-8 that I'm looking for would cost me about $1800 with upgraded quad rail. Would you pay the extra $1000 for the POF .308? In other words, is it actually worth the decent sized difference in price? (I realize it's impingement versus piston) I have also been eyeing the predator version of the LaRue, but either that or the POF are going to take me a long time to save for.

Last edited by slim9300; March 10, 2013 at 12:02 PM.
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Old March 10, 2013, 08:48 PM   #11
The Long Shot
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Quote:
The LAR-8 that I'm looking for would cost me about $1800 with upgraded quad rail. Would you pay the extra $1000 for the POF .308? In other words, is it actually worth the decent sized difference in price? (I realize it's impingement versus piston) I have also been eyeing the predator version of the LaRue, but either that or the POF are going to take me a long time to save for.

It's worth it if you need what they offer. The PredatOBR isn't really worth it because it's basically a heavy barreled predatar with a better gas system, it lacks the thicker upper receiver making it loose one of the primary advantage of the OBR. The P308 has a thicker upper and a heat sink barrel nut allowing it to be more accurate. This thicker receivers flex less making it more accurate. The PredatOBR has a standard thickness upper so it is less accurate. Both the P308 and the OBR's handguard doesn't mount to the barrel nut. I have noticed that piston guns (when properly designed) can be more accurate than DI guns due to less heat being transfered to the chamber area, the hottest part of the barrel. The P308 and OBR will have less vertical stringing than most.

The P308 and OBR are designed for accurately putting lots of lead downrange at long range, the LAR-8 will put lead accurately downrange, but won't have that last bit of accuracy that the P308 and OBR squeeze out. Unless you're doing something that you need to shoot 1/3 MOA for the LAR-8 will serve you well. The LAR-8 I shot would shoot sub MOA about all the time. The LAR-8 is perfect for out to 1000 yards. I feel that the PredatOBR is in the same legue as the LAR-8.

The P308 is easier to clean, needs cleaning less often, and doesn't NEED to be lubed, but it should be because of the NP3. It functions very well in sand, water, and mud.

I wouldn't get a P308 or OBR if you don't plan on shooting at very long ranges often. I wouldn't get a P308 if you don't need the accuracy AND reliability it has; you can get other piston .308's for less. I wouldn't get a PredatOBR unless I wanted to overpay.

If you don't plan on swapping uppers, you are happy with Rock River's selection of handguards, and you don't need anything more than sub MOA performance get the LAR-8.
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Old March 10, 2013, 10:11 PM   #12
slim9300
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SCAR vs AR part II The .308s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long Shot View Post
It's worth it if you need what they offer. The PredatOBR isn't really worth it because it's basically a heavy barreled predatar with a better gas system, it lacks the thicker upper receiver making it loose one of the primary advantage of the OBR. The P308 has a thicker upper and a heat sink barrel nut allowing it to be more accurate. This thicker receivers flex less making it more accurate. The PredatOBR has a standard thickness upper so it is less accurate. Both the P308 and the OBR's handguard doesn't mount to the barrel nut. I have noticed that piston guns (when properly designed) can be more accurate than DI guns due to less heat being transfered to the chamber area, the hottest part of the barrel. The P308 and OBR will have less vertical stringing than most.

The P308 and OBR are designed for accurately putting lots of lead downrange at long range, the LAR-8 will put lead accurately downrange, but won't have that last bit of accuracy that the P308 and OBR squeeze out. Unless you're doing something that you need to shoot 1/3 MOA for the LAR-8 will serve you well. The LAR-8 I shot would shoot sub MOA about all the time. The LAR-8 is perfect for out to 1000 yards. I feel that the PredatOBR is in the same legue as the LAR-8.

The P308 is easier to clean, needs cleaning less often, and doesn't NEED to be lubed, but it should be because of the NP3. It functions very well in sand, water, and mud.

I wouldn't get a P308 or OBR if you don't plan on shooting at very long ranges often. I wouldn't get a P308 if you don't need the accuracy AND reliability it has; you can get other piston .308's for less. I wouldn't get a PredatOBR unless I wanted to overpay.

If you don't plan on swapping uppers, you are happy with Rock River's selection of handguards, and you don't need anything more than sub MOA performance get the LAR-8.
Thank you! Your advice is super helpful.
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Old March 25, 2013, 12:58 AM   #13
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SCAR 17 accuracy

What ammo were you using for the SCAR 17? I was able to get consistent 3/4 MOA out of my SCAR 17 using Hornady 168 gr AMAX. I think it really just depends on the bullet weight. When I tried 175 gr, they were definitely 1.25 MOA.
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