41 Mag Speer 200 gr JHP

RC20 · March 1, 2013, 02:18 AM

I am starting to reload this older to me bullet, not sure when Speer discontinued it, mine date back to the 70s. Must have had a good sale as I have 400 or them and no notes on loading them though one box is opened.

What I cannot find is a COAL and its an odd bugger with no crimp ring on it. Its a Semi wad-cutter with a jacket on it (Speer number 4405)

It looks like if I seat it to 1.590 even its going to roll over the edge and does it need a crimp if lower loads

Plan is to shoot mild in it, powders would 2400, AL8 and longer term Unique as I have a lot of that. Probably 800-1000 fpm. Not into bear protection any more, just target shooting.

Looked at an old Speer book and they had no COAL data for it and seemed to think you had to shoot them hot but did not find that necessary in the past shooting lighter loads in other types jacked with Unique.

steveno · March 1, 2013, 04:18 AM

if this is the "half jacket bullet" it is supposed to be crimped over the front edge of the bullet

RC20 · March 1, 2013, 10:36 AM

I would say its half jacketed.

Two questions:

Crimp on the jacket or the lead portion?

And with mild loads, does it need to be crimped at all?

**Unclenick** · March 1, 2013, 10:53 AM

A half jacket is a jacket that isn't long enough to be part of the bullet ogive. It is pretty much straight, except for the finished top edge, then is followed by an exposed lead that has the ogive shape. Here's a .30 Cal example where the exposed lead portion is round nose, though it could be formed as a SWC or a hollow point or anything. For a revolver load, the top edge (mouth) of the jacket would have the crimp rolled over top of it.

SSA · March 1, 2013, 03:01 PM

Roll crimp over the front of the jacket. It looks just like a lead SWC HP when it's loaded.
Speer cautioned against light loads with those bullets. The concern was that the core and jacket could separate and the jacket could stick in the barrel.

RC20 · March 1, 2013, 05:01 PM

Very interesting. I see the concept in the blow up of the 30 caliber.

I thought this was pretty interesting as well

http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar184.htm

I am going to load up some and keep an eye on the jacket situation and see how they do with a very mild crimp. Keep them at 1000 fps.

myfriendis410 · March 1, 2013, 11:16 PM

I've loaded that same bullet. It seemed to like being driven hard, so 1,000 fps might not deliver the best accuracy. It really was a poor bullet for terminal performance, but was a deep penetrating round. I would load up to 1,100-1,150 for best results.

RC20 · March 2, 2013, 11:39 AM

Pretty funny to have a ton of an odd bullet. It does make nice holes and I could see it being a heck of a self defense loading if you used the revolver for that.

Thanks for the suggestion. I was averaging in the low 1000s on the Chrono with it and had some erratic rounds (or hits). I know I was not shooting all that well but 2 inches for 4 or 5 out of 6 and then a wild one or two.

Also using old pre loaded primers so will both new primers and up the load a bit.

Not a good load for unique so will see what I can get for that. 2400 was nice even gentle recoil, the Unique smacked more like a full load.

I have some old Sierra conventional bullets JSP I can use the Unique with (and maybe get some cast bullets). Just target stuff so I don't have to achieve escape velocities to be effective.

Drue · March 2, 2013, 06:04 PM

I used the Speer 200 JSWC for IHMSA back in the day. I worked out a load of 19 gr of 2400 for my 8-3/8 M57 and it was very accurate and smacked the rams with authority. It is my favorite .41 slug and I wish that they still made them.

Drue

RC20 · March 10, 2013, 11:20 PM

Well let me know if you are interested, I could sell a couple of boxes and still have plenty to ride me through the shortage. Shipping would probably be $14 on a flast rate but they might fit in the $6 box (have to see what the weight limit on that one is.)

I contacted Speer and they advised at least 1100 fps for that bullet.

Have to up the anti a bit, 14 gr of 2400 has them moving along in the mid 1000 range so not far off.

I liked the 2400 a lot better, Unique ok for much lower speeds but the 2400 had that slow build to it. Always was my favorite powder.

March 1, 2013, 02:18 AM	#1
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 1,425	41 Mag Speer 200 gr JHP I am starting to reload this older to me bullet, not sure when Speer discontinued it, mine date back to the 70s. Must have had a good sale as I have 400 or them and no notes on loading them though one box is opened. What I cannot find is a COAL and its an odd bugger with no crimp ring on it. Its a Semi wad-cutter with a jacket on it (Speer number 4405) It looks like if I seat it to 1.590 even its going to roll over the edge and does it need a crimp if lower loads Plan is to shoot mild in it, powders would 2400, AL8 and longer term Unique as I have a lot of that. Probably 800-1000 fpm. Not into bear protection any more, just target shooting. Looked at an old Speer book and they had no COAL data for it and seemed to think you had to shoot them hot but did not find that necessary in the past shooting lighter loads in other types jacked with Unique.

March 1, 2013, 10:53 AM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,164	A half jacket is a jacket that isn't long enough to be part of the bullet ogive. It is pretty much straight, except for the finished top edge, then is followed by an exposed lead that has the ogive shape. Here's a .30 Cal example where the exposed lead portion is round nose, though it could be formed as a SWC or a hollow point or anything. For a revolver load, the top edge (mouth) of the jacket would have the crimp rolled over top of it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member

March 1, 2013, 04:18 AM	#2
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,191	if this is the "half jacket bullet" it is supposed to be crimped over the front edge of the bullet

March 1, 2013, 10:36 AM	#3
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 1,425	I would say its half jacketed. Two questions: Crimp on the jacket or the lead portion? And with mild loads, does it need to be crimped at all?

March 1, 2013, 03:01 PM	#5
SSA Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Posts: 167	Roll crimp over the front of the jacket. It looks just like a lead SWC HP when it's loaded. Speer cautioned against light loads with those bullets. The concern was that the core and jacket could separate and the jacket could stick in the barrel.

March 1, 2013, 05:01 PM	#6
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 1,425	Very interesting. I see the concept in the blow up of the 30 caliber. I thought this was pretty interesting as well http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar184.htm I am going to load up some and keep an eye on the jacket situation and see how they do with a very mild crimp. Keep them at 1000 fps.

March 1, 2013, 11:16 PM	#7
myfriendis410 Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 60	I've loaded that same bullet. It seemed to like being driven hard, so 1,000 fps might not deliver the best accuracy. It really was a poor bullet for terminal performance, but was a deep penetrating round. I would load up to 1,100-1,150 for best results.

March 2, 2013, 11:39 AM	#8
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 1,425	Pretty funny to have a ton of an odd bullet. It does make nice holes and I could see it being a heck of a self defense loading if you used the revolver for that. Thanks for the suggestion. I was averaging in the low 1000s on the Chrono with it and had some erratic rounds (or hits). I know I was not shooting all that well but 2 inches for 4 or 5 out of 6 and then a wild one or two. Also using old pre loaded primers so will both new primers and up the load a bit. Not a good load for unique so will see what I can get for that. 2400 was nice even gentle recoil, the Unique smacked more like a full load. I have some old Sierra conventional bullets JSP I can use the Unique with (and maybe get some cast bullets). Just target stuff so I don't have to achieve escape velocities to be effective.

March 2, 2013, 06:04 PM	#9
Drue Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2002 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 128	I used the Speer 200 JSWC for IHMSA back in the day. I worked out a load of 19 gr of 2400 for my 8-3/8 M57 and it was very accurate and smacked the rams with authority. It is my favorite .41 slug and I wish that they still made them. Drue

March 10, 2013, 11:20 PM	#10
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 1,425	Well let me know if you are interested, I could sell a couple of boxes and still have plenty to ride me through the shortage. Shipping would probably be $14 on a flast rate but they might fit in the $6 box (have to see what the weight limit on that one is.) I contacted Speer and they advised at least 1100 fps for that bullet. Have to up the anti a bit, 14 gr of 2400 has them moving along in the mid 1000 range so not far off. I liked the 2400 a lot better, Unique ok for much lower speeds but the 2400 had that slow build to it. Always was my favorite powder.