The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 2, 2013, 12:40 AM   #26
breakingcontact
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 736
Different law enforcement, and military outfits may have semi (USMC) or pump based upon a ton of factors.

What's best for one situation may not be best universally.

If you prefer a pump, great. Know their limitations and how to clear them if you jam it up, they aren't jam proof and when they jam they can jam real good. Don't have a false confidence that they won't/can't jam nor that modern semis are jam-o-matics.
breakingcontact is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 12:52 AM   #27
Gaerek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 939
Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakingcontact View Post
Different law enforcement, and military outfits may have semi (USMC) or pump based upon a ton of factors.

What's best for one situation may not be best universally.

If you prefer a pump, great. Know their limitations and how to clear them if you jam it up, they aren't jam proof and when they jam they can jam real good. Don't have a false confidence that they won't/can't jam nor that modern semis are jam-o-matics.
My point was that saying pumps are used simply because they're cheap is gross oversimplification. I have confidence that if I dropped my 500 in the mud (been there, done that) it will still go bang when I rack and pull the trigger. A semi? I wouldn't be as confident. Given the harsh conditions of the Alaska wilderness, especially during rainy season and winter, I'm guessing this is what my friend was referring to, not that semis are jam o matics. Besides, he shot a Benelli Super Black Eagle for water fowl.
Gaerek is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 04:25 AM   #28
Bake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2012
Posts: 237
Heres my $0.02 worth. I won't take any shot gun to a "dog fight" until I've shot 49 out of 50 on the skeet range, and 50 out of 50 on the trap range. With the same gun, same shot size (#8), and the same choke (Mod), and the same barrel (26" or 28").

Then I would pattern it with; at least #4 buck to 00, and go from there...
Bake is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 01:57 PM   #29
Dreaming100Straight
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2013
Posts: 693
Like to hear from LE, but believe a factor in selection is reliability of a weapon that is passed around from officer to officer and may not be kept in as good a condition as a personal weapon.
Dreaming100Straight is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 03:54 PM   #30
breakingcontact
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 736
Re: Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

In theory LEOs train a lot. Or they did before their competency/safety was ran through the budget and they get their training budgets cut. Interesting, if they were paid less, they could train more. But I digress.

A properly trained LEO...who are mostly men and hopefully in good shape and/or good sized may be served very well by a pump shotgun. Same could be said of a civilian who really trains. Whereas a smaller person (often female), person who is in less athletic shape, people who cannot handle the recoil of the pump shotgun, people who train far less may very well be better served by a semi auto shotgun.

These debates about "what's best?" are something else. We too often pick our favorite based upon what the majority do, what those we look up to do (cops have pumps, Marines have semis...pick your team), what we think is cool, favorite gun in Call of Duty (or whatever is the cool game now on Atari) while ignoring that different groups and different individuals within those groups may be served very well by different weapons.

I dont like revolvers. I like S&W semi autos but I won't say they are better than revolvers for everyone then run down all opinions/experiences that different from my view. I don't like Glocks but I don't spend time railing against them, they are good. Just not what I prefer.

So i guess to get to the point after whatever it was I wrote above...semi or pump, which one is better? Depending upon the user and circumstance, either could be better. I prefer semi-auto shotguns but my next may be a pump. Not because the semis are unreliable (they are reliable), but because I recognize the benefits of the pump in some situations for some people.

Psychology of the tribe meets consumerism plus internet wisdom. That's what too many of these threads reveal.

This isn't an attack aimed at anyone here. Just a general observation. There is a lot of good advice based on experience and knowledge here and I appreciate that and you all. (Wipes single tear) -out
breakingcontact is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 10:10 PM   #31
amd6547
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 1,430
Which is best, pump or semi?
Both, of course.
__________________
The past is gone...the future may never happen.
Be Here Now.
amd6547 is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 04:42 AM   #32
Bake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2012
Posts: 237
12 Gauge, of course
Bake is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 09:26 AM   #33
kutz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2012
Location: New Mexico USA
Posts: 330
Love my M590A1!
kutz is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 09:35 AM   #34
TAKtical
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 145
Anything made by benelli
__________________
Due to several differences of opinion with staff, I am choosing to no longer do business on this forum. Everyone that has a pending order will need to contact me via email at TakticalHolsters@aol.com Thanks,
-Tom&Tricia
TAKtical is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 05:30 PM   #35
Sigowner
Member
 
Join Date: March 27, 2012
Posts: 51
Watched a matchup between the Benelli M4 and Mossberg 590 on Triggers 2 days ago. Both shooters fired a preset target course and were timed to completion. Pump was 1 second off semi.....I really do not think it's as much about semi or pump as it is about the operator. Practice should iron out most of the issues so go with whatever you feel most comfortable with or just want the most.
Sigowner is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 06:36 PM   #36
Gats Italian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2008
Posts: 331
I can easily afford either and still prefer the pump, especially for rapid load selection drills.
__________________
Leave the gun, take the cannoli.
Gats Italian is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 07:18 PM   #37
k511
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 455
if you have 1700 to spend on an quality HD shotgun from a well known company.... there isant much else to say other than Benelli M4....yes, a one who has trained with a pump can be just as leathal as a person with a semi as far as being able to cycle rounds down range, but for the average person a semi is going to be a better choice IMO.....love my 870 pump guns, trust them with my life, but the M4 is what i keep at arms reach when i sleep...
k511 is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 07:27 PM   #38
Hillshooter
Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2009
Posts: 24
One reason to pick a pump for HD is not being mentioned--the absolute heart-stopping fear that rushes through a low-life criminal's soul when he hears the unmistakable racking of a pump shotgun that's getting ready to send him to the "other side".
Hillshooter is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 07:55 PM   #39
RonR6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2013
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 108
My 500 Mossberg Mariner, It is extremely dependable. None of my other shotguns are considered tacticle. Someday I would like to purchase a Mossberg 930 or something similar.
RonR6 is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 09:05 PM   #40
breakingcontact
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 736
Re: Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillshooter View Post
One reason to pick a pump for HD is not being mentioned--the absolute heart-stopping fear that rushes through a low-life criminal's soul when he hears the unmistakable racking of a pump shotgun that's getting ready to send him to the "other side".
Oh no...you went there...
breakingcontact is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 04:34 AM   #41
okiewita40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 404
I prefer a pump to an auto loader in shotguns. A pump is what I used growing up when I hunted. Now that I am an LEO. A pump is what is issued to me. Muscle memory has a lot to do with it as does being familar with the battery/manual of arms.
__________________
What on god's green earth do you think your doing?
okiewita40 is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 04:48 AM   #42
jp_over
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 58
pump

I say pump even though I love my autos (mostly Browning over the years). It's one thing to have a malfunction in the duck blind and quite another to have a malfunction in a defense of life or property situation.

I've personally been eyeing this one for a while:

http://wilsoncombat.com/new/shotgun-...p#.UTW-0-jz6po

Having said this, unless you train with it, you won't be proficient (especially a pump).

Just my .02.

Joe
jp_over is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 08:32 PM   #43
Doc TH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2005
Posts: 509
I have been shooting a Remington 1100 for many years. I have never had a malfunction. I don't buy the argument that SA is less reliable than a pump action. As a matter of fact I have never had a malfuntion in my M1 carbine, SKS, or Garand, for that matter. I believe that an excellent SA design (e.g., Garand) is not at all inferior to any pump action design in terms of reliability. If one prefers a pump, fine - personally, I'll take a SA in a shotgun.
Doc TH is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 09:05 PM   #44
docnyt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2011
Location: HeArT of DiXiE
Posts: 154
Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

Get the best of both worlds - the Benelli M3. You can switch from semi to pump at will.
docnyt is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 09:23 PM   #45
breakingcontact
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 736
Re: Tactical shotgun - pump or semi-auto and why?

^that^ kind of goes against one of the main components of training for the fight (consistency) does it not?
breakingcontact is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 10:03 PM   #46
Lee Lapin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Location: SE NC
Posts: 1,238
Any reliable shotgun will do, if the SHOOTER will do. Some makes/models 'speak' to a given person more than others - find one you like, buy two of them and set them up the same way, get some professional training with it (Louis Awerbuck, Tom Givens, John Farnam, Randy Cain...) and drive on.

I shoot older model (pre-magazine tube dimple) 870 Express guns by choice, the inT3rW3bZ would have you believe they are rust prone pieces of MIM-infested junk, which may have something to do with continuing opportunities to buy them for $175 or so in good used condition and set them up as desired. I took Louis Awerbuck's shotgun refresher class this past summer with one of them, and had another (the one I used in the original 2005 class) as a spare in the truck. Imagine that, it ran almost 300 rounds in one day with no problems, including some interesting variations of the Rolling Thunder drill - Express guns are not supposed to be able to do that, according to current wisdom.

My favorite semi of the half dozen models I've tried is an FN SLP, FWIW...
__________________
Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order!

Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.
Lee Lapin is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 11:14 PM   #47
Striker1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 635
Either as long as you learn how to make it go and it proves reliable with your chosen loads.
Striker1 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12097 seconds with 9 queries