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Old February 27, 2013, 06:05 PM   #1
mapsjanhere
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Short barrel powders

My Kar 88 has arrived, and I got lucky, it got the S bore after all. But - it's still a 17" 8x57 barrel, and every picture/description I find describes the spectacular muzzle flash. As I plan to make some low power rounds for starters (the whole 125 year old gun thing), does anyone have suggestions for powders optimized for short barrels?
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Old February 27, 2013, 06:22 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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I'll run some numbers in QuickLoad later but my first thought for low-power, low-flash rounds would be Trail Boss.
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Old February 27, 2013, 08:05 PM   #3
mapsjanhere
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Hogdgon doesn't list the 8x57 for that powder (so I do have some to try if I can find a load). And while it sure is nice for a first function test I would like to get at least 2000 ft/s
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Old February 27, 2013, 09:00 PM   #4
reynolds357
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Tac
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Old February 27, 2013, 09:40 PM   #5
Sport45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapsjanhere
Hogdgon doesn't list the 8x57 for that powder (so I do have some to try if I can find a load).
Sure they do. In fact they tell how to load Trail Boss in any modern rifle or pistol cartridge.

Quote:
This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications:
  • Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!
  • Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load.
  • Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!
But you probably won't get 2000 fps.
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Old February 27, 2013, 10:32 PM   #6
Rainbow Demon
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I used IMR4198 in medium velocity loads for my 18 inch barreled Persian Mauser.
I forget the exact charge weight, but it was over 35 gr and less than 40 gr.
The cases got shorter from base to shoulder with every reloading when neck sized only, so the charge I was using must have been too light to fully expand the case after it was driven deeper into the chamber by pin strike and primer discharge. The charge should be a tad higher than I was using, but I can't say just how high you could safely go.

The muzzle blast was rather mild compared to full power loads, the 4198 powder burns more throughly and cleanly in short barrels than other slower powders.

Stated velocity of that load with a 170 gr bullet was well over 2000 fps, around 2300 I think it was.
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Old February 27, 2013, 10:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
My Kar 88 has arrived
Gew 88?



I've used IMR 4064 .... the max load listed (36.gr) in the manual left the cases sooty .... insufficient pressure in my 18" barrel for proper obturation ..... pushing it up to 38 gr solved that, and gave about 2000 f/sec with a Hornady 170gr RNSP ......
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Old February 28, 2013, 08:09 AM   #8
mapsjanhere
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Thanks for the many suggestions.
Kar 88 was the short version of the Gew 88 - 17" barrel, no bayonet lug. Used for cavalry units, artillery and train. Unlike the Gew 88, they did not get the modification to the 88/05 for stripper clip loading, but still use the old en bloc clip a la Mannlicher.
Hodgdon lists 41.5 gr IMR 4064 as starting load for the 170 gr RN, if 38 gr works I will try that. I have to check if I can find some 4198.
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Old February 28, 2013, 01:37 PM   #9
reynolds357
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If you are wanting velocity, Tac is where its at.
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Old March 1, 2013, 02:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
If you are wanting velocity, Tac is where its at.
Care must be taken in deference to the 1888 action and 19th century metalurgy ...... if you want velocity, find a different gun ..... this one is supposed to be kept below 36K CUP.

Others you might try would be RL12 (Start load of 36.9, Max of 40.0, supposed to give 2200 f/sec ith 170 gr jacketed bullet @ 35K CUP.).... it would stand to reason that the quicker powder would perform better in our shorter barrels (it worked that way with my Ruger Frontier) ........ I have yet to try that one- too many other projects going!
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