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Old February 25, 2013, 02:01 AM   #1
number 9
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Stabilizing weapon for a prone shot.

I prefer going prone for shots at distance w/a harris b/p. However I would like to hear from others how they stabilize their weapons in order to remain on target as they are making the shot. Lean in heavily putting tension on the b/p? Pulling down on the front sling strap? Pulling the weapon tightly into your shoulder with a firm cheekweld? Let the front end float, allowing your left hand to curl back to the rear under your right elbow,thus allowing the weapon to free recoil?

One of the reasons I ask is because I can't get one system and stay with it,I go with what feels best at the time and this could be throwing my game off because of deviating from routine. I realize different situations require different methods of attack. Just wondering what some of you guys use.

By the way I am trying to ring out a Savage model 10 bolt gun w/ an accustock and accutrigger. My preferred stock type is the a/r - Gas Gun with a pistolgrip. To me this allows me to pull the weapon tightly to the shoulder from underneath whyle allowing the left hand to sweep for the target. Maby a Choate type stock might fit the bill. I really like a pistol grip. How do some of you work through this?
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Old February 25, 2013, 08:49 AM   #2
number 9
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Found the answers on Pops 1085 post on cheek welds. Some good info there.
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Old February 25, 2013, 12:48 PM   #3
Bart B.
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It's not easy for me to decode your abbreviations (w/i and b/p) 'cause I flunked abbreviation school.

Shooting from prone's best done with a sling from the fore end tip around the top of your off-hand (opposite from trigger hand) arm to the bicep muscle on the same arm. Plant your elbows about 30 to 45 degrees down from where their hands hold the rifle. Adjust the sling to where it's comfortable. Then adjust sling tension as well as elbow position on the ground as well as your body angle to the target and how far apart your legs are spread.

Then test it by first hyperventilating; take 3 deep breaths then let out half of the last one. Hold your breath while aiming the rifle watching the scope's reticule bounce around an aiming point. After 15 seconds of holding your breath, exhale then hyperventilate again. Start over. Your eye's vision starts to get less clear after about 20 seconds of not replenishing the oxygen in the blood feeding it's retina sensor cells.

At some position, you'll see the scope's reticule bouncing around the least on the target. Use those settings every time. Practise getting out of then going back into that position so you'll remember it and do it right every time.

I prefer to use two bags under my front hand on the fore end and one under the toe of the stock helps. I can hold about 1/10th MOA doing this. Tried bipods and never got one to work as well as shot bags full of rice.


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Old February 25, 2013, 01:02 PM   #4
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Don't put excess force on the bipod, that forces you to not be relaxed. Don't put excess pressure on cheek weld, because that means you are holding the rifle differently than usual and your round will not go where you want. Keep your cheek weld the exact same regardless of the position you are shooting.

For your weak hand. I prefer to have a small squeeze bag to place under the rear of the stock. You can squeeze it to lower your aiming point, or release it to raise your aiming point. If you don't have a squeeze bag, then put your hand under the stock in order to stabilize it. Do not put your weak hand under your firing arm; use it as a support. (This is how to use a squeeze bag, and where your weak hand should go if you do not have a bag)

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Old February 25, 2013, 01:35 PM   #5
Art Eatman
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Hold it the same way you do when you sight in. The idea is to maintain the same stresses on the rifle in the field as when on the bench rest.
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Old February 25, 2013, 03:08 PM   #6
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Whatever you do, do it the same way each time you shoot. Consistency is the key to success.

I don't know what all the hype about bipods is for, I learned to shoot with a sling and it works pretty darn well. You can't buy your way to good marksmanship, even though some people try.
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Old February 25, 2013, 03:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
I prefer going prone for shots at distance w/a harris b/p. However I would like to hear from others how they stabilize their weapons in order to remain on target as they are making the shot. Lean in heavily putting tension on the b/p? Pulling down on the front sling strap? Pulling the weapon tightly into your shoulder with a firm cheekweld? Let the front end float, allowing your left hand to curl back to the rear under your right elbow,thus allowing the weapon to free recoil?

One of the reasons I ask is because I can't get one system and stay with it,I go with what feels best at the time and this could be throwing my game off because of deviating from routine. I realize different situations require different methods of attack. Just wondering what some of you guys use.

By the way I am trying to ring out a Savage model 10 bolt gun w/ an accustock and accutrigger. My preferred stock type is the a/r - Gas Gun with a pistolgrip. To me this allows me to pull the weapon tightly to the shoulder from underneath whyle allowing the left hand to sweep for the target. Maby a Choate type stock might fit the bill. I really like a pistol grip. How do some of you work through this?
When on the bipod, I suspect your main problem might be stabilizing the rear of the rifle not the front.

Just to be sure, you are talking about firing prone supported as opposed to prone unsupported.
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Old February 25, 2013, 05:43 PM   #8
Bart B.
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Regarding sighting in with the rifle atop rests on a benchtop and held against the shoulder, I and others I've talked with often find zeros got this way are about 1 to 2 MOA to one side from zeros attained slung up in prone. They'll be to the left for a right handed shooter. Ones body mass position differences behind the rifle between the two is why.

Get zeros with both then compare their settings.
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Old February 25, 2013, 09:41 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the replies. The majority of distance shots I have taken have been w/ (with) a lr308 (a/r 10 semi auto 308) I use the same harris b/p (bipod) on both weapons. I don't shoot from the bench at all.

I've also never used bags although this would have to make for a more stable shooting platform. I try to shoot under what would simulate field conditions although I realize a flat range does not simulate field terrain. I do like the idea of a palm bag especially as this can be transported with the firearm in the case.

I am adjusting to a savage 10 fcp k bolt rig. I have shot black guns almost exclusively for some time and the cheek weld along with the absence of a pistol grip, especially the pistol grip is going to take some adjustment on my part unless I change out the stock. With the pistol grip as I use it I can push / pull horizontally w/o (with out) changing the plane of sight as much, as I regulate eye relief.

For one single shot the theory behind zero downward pressure with the support hand folded back under the stock for support as well as raising / lowering the aft end of the firearm seems sound. This would also seem to be easily repeatable. Question here is without applying downward force to the fore end would the reaction from the fired bullet be enough to alter the point of impact or could this be corrected in scope adjustment prior to the shot?

These are just questions I have regarding adjustment to the bolt rig. I realize what works the best is what every individual finds in his best interest regarding the individual pieces of equipment. I also understand there are many many individuals with training, experience, knowledge of physics, science, math, and advance trigger time from my own experience. I am just looking to advance my base of information and incorporate outside ideas to what I have gathered to date.

Thanks for the help,
Leonard
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Old February 25, 2013, 10:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
I've also never used bags although this would have to make for a more stable shooting platform. I try to shoot under what would simulate field conditions although I realize a flat range does not simulate field terrain. I do like the idea of a palm bag especially as this can be transported with the firearm in the case.
There are small bags that you can even attach right to the rear sling swivel so it will be there when you need it.
Otherwise, get a heavy shooting glove and slide that back under the stock when you are prone.
You can get almost as stable with a glove as you are with a beanbag...
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Old February 26, 2013, 07:57 AM   #11
Bart B.
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Number 9 asks without applying downward force to the fore end would the reaction from the fired bullet be enough to alter the point of impact or could this be corrected in scope adjustment prior to the shot.

Any change to the resistance amount and direction to the rifle's recoil will change bullet impact from the aiming point. What this does is determine how much and in what direction the muzzle axis moves from where it was when the firing pin fired the shot to where it is when the bullet leaves. Rifles move backwards, sideways and usually up in recoil while the bullet's goind down the barrel.

If you get a zero at each range for each of several shooting positions and holding techniques, then all you need to do is look up the zero for each way you'll shoot, put it on the sight then shoot.
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Old February 26, 2013, 09:14 AM   #12
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1) Load the bipod. As you settle into position, there should be forward pressure on the rifle.

2) Lie STRAIGHT behind the rifle.

All the posts about consistent cheek weld, respiratory pause, trigger control etc. of course apply but are not unique to shooting prone with a pod.

Too many "G.I. Joe" type pics floating around, where the shooter's body splays off at an angle to the rifle.

You need to be able to draw a hypothetical straight line- down the bore of the rifle, through your shoulder, and down through your leg. Do NOT angle your torso off to the side, that is incorrect form.

Recoil from the rifle needs to be channeled STRAIGHT back- if you are angled, recoil will force the butt of the rifle off to the side. With proper form, the buttstock will drive straight back- not hop off to the side- and return to the proper position for follow up shots.

Especially if shooting long range, with flight times of a second or more, it's no problem spotting your own hits when proper form is used- even from high-power cartridges.
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Old February 26, 2013, 09:32 AM   #13
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Good luck. I have never been able to shoot prone. I can't breath when laying down like that, even when I was young and slender. My elbows roll around like they are ball bearings.
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Old February 26, 2013, 11:37 AM   #14
Bart B.
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tobnpr, I've never known a top ranked prone shooter put his body aligned behind a high power rifle such that the rifle recoils straight back. To do that means the shooter's backbone has to be angled a bit to the right for a right handed shooter 'cause the rifle butt's in his right shoulder pocket. Several have their body axis pretty much inline with the rifle, but still angled a little bit to the left.

Nancy Tompkins new book states what I've also seen and done to do the best; the shooter's body is angled 15 to 30 degrees off the line of sight to the target. Any less angle means one's arms may not be able to be positioned correctly to hold the rifle as still as possible.

I don't think there would be any difference using a bipod or some other front rest. At least not when I've done it.
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Last edited by Bart B.; February 26, 2013 at 11:49 AM.
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Old February 26, 2013, 05:11 PM   #15
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bipod not level

Ok. Let's throw in some variables. If shooting on a bipod from uneven terrain, say a left to right slope of 20 or 30 degrees, will that throw the shot as compared to the same bipod on flat terrain?

So much to learn. And I thought I had it all down.
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Old February 26, 2013, 06:09 PM   #16
Bart B.
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stubbicat, any change in the amount or position of human mass behind a recoiling rifle or how that human grips the rifle will change where the muzzle axis points when the bullet exits. Shooting smallbore 22 rimfire slung up prone in a 100 yard match, move your front elbow left or right an inch and if that's the only difference from the previoius shot, watch the next one miss your point of aim.

It's grade school physics; think about it for a bit (while).
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Old February 27, 2013, 06:49 AM   #17
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Too many "G.I. Joe" type pics floating around, where the shooter's body splays off at an angle to the rifle.
Appleseed teaches that you should be “splayed off at an angle” and for me anyhow, it works better then making your body a straight line with the bore. Being at an angle, some where around 15 to 25 degrees from the bore axis, is less fatiguing, thus more comfortable, and you can shoot longer. Angling from the bore rather then straight lining it, also feels more natural. But to each his own I guess.
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Old February 27, 2013, 08:52 AM   #18
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I recommend folk check out these articles for shooting prone:
http://artoftherifle.blogspot.com/20...pod-prone.html
http://artoftherifle.blogspot.com/20...ary-prone.html
http://artoftherifle.blogspot.com/20...pic-prone.html

Now i'm not sure about the absolute "correctness" of that blog but I did try some of the ideas and found some good tips. Enough help that I trust the blog enough to try more ideas from it.

Take Rifleman1176's post:
Quote:
Good luck. I have never been able to shoot prone. I can't breath when laying down like that, even when I was young and slender. My elbows roll around like they are ball bearings.
I had the same issues as Rifleman but these articles had some tips that completely resolved my breathing and elbow issues.

Over 200 articles relating to rifle shooting (look under "blog archives" in the lower right hand side). I'm sure it's not perfect and some will post every little "perceived" error but it's a lot better than just rollin around in the dirt with zero idea what we are doing.
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Old February 27, 2013, 09:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
I recommend folk check out these articles for shooting prone:
http://artoftherifle.blogspot.com/20...pod-prone.html
Never saw that one before, but backs up what I'd seen elsewhere and mentioned above.
It worked for me, anyway...

Quote:
Appleseed teaches that you should be “splayed off at an angle” and for me anyhow, it works better then making your body a straight line with the bore. Being at an angle, some where around 15 to 25 degrees from the bore axis, is less fatiguing, thus more comfortable, and you can shoot longer. Angling from the bore rather then straight lining it, also feels more natural. But to each his own I guess.
Isn't Appleseed shot prone with slings? Slings are a completely different animal than shooting off a pod. But yes- to each his own. If you're not comfortable- for whatever reason- you're not going to be accurate. All about bone support.
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Old February 27, 2013, 10:45 AM   #20
L_Killkenny
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Isn't Appleseed shot prone with slings? Slings are a completely different animal than shooting off a pod.
Not sure if it's a "completely" different animal but yes you are right, both Mike AND Bart are talkin about things different and not all that relevant for the OP's question on using bipods.
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Old February 28, 2013, 01:07 AM   #21
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Stabilizing weapon for a prone shot.

When shooting sling prone, I do find it more comfortable to be off at an angle.
The key then becomes keeping everything consistent.

With a bipod and a rear squeeze bag, I need to be straight behind the gun.
If I get angled, the gun will jump off target whichever way I am angled and I have a harder time spotting my own impacts.
When I am square, the gun jumps right back on target before the bullet lands there.
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Old February 28, 2013, 01:18 AM   #22
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I prefer using a backpack, sounds silly, but it works well enough. Everything else I guess is standard. Well I do have a broken collar bone which creates a perfect pocket in my shoulder for the butt stock to sit. But I wouldn't recommend going out and breaking yours.
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