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Old February 26, 2013, 01:11 AM   #1
wordfan
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Model 28

I put a Model 28 on layaway a couple of days ago at Gander Mountain, and I was hoping that some of you S&W guys could answer a couple of questions for me. Was the 28 ever made in a round butt configuration? I ask because the gun is wearing a Hogue Monogrip, and I've been online shopping for a more traditional wood grip. Every 28 I've seen online has been a square butt, but it would be just my luck that I order a square butt grip, then get the thing off layaway to find that it has a round butt. The gun is definitely pinned and recessed, if that helps with the age and determining which grip frame it has. My second question is does anyone have experience with the rosewood N-frame target grips that S&W has on their website right now? They look pretty good for the money. I like the eagle heritage grips, but they don't have the medallions. The Ahrend target grips look great too, but again no medallions, and as far as I can tell, Ahrend doesn't offer checkering on those grips. I want checkering, not so much for function as for aesthetics.

Thanks in advance for your replies.
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Old February 26, 2013, 02:49 AM   #2
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A pinned and recessed 28 will be square butt.
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Old February 26, 2013, 04:56 AM   #3
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Welcome. Not aware of a factory RB in the 28. The Eagle Heritage are nice grips.
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Old February 26, 2013, 07:19 AM   #4
Hal
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I want checkering, not so much for function as for aesthetics.
The 28 is a double action & that's the way you want to shoot it.
Checkering will "dig" into your hand - which is a good thing.
Smooth grips can slip and let the gun roll down in your hand firing heavy loads - which is a bad thing.

Reverse that for a single action revolver.
A smooth grip for a S/A will allow the gun to roll down in your hand - which is a good thing.

Nice gun BTW.

My N-frame is a M29 & I at one time intended to get the prettier version of the .357mag - the M27.
After shooting the .44mag though, I lost most of my desire for a .357mag.

That's just me though.
What barrel length is your M28?
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Old February 26, 2013, 07:39 PM   #5
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Smooth grips can slip and let the gun roll down in your hand firing heavy loads - which is a bad thing.

Hal is right, but if the grips fit your hand, smooth grips can work well. My preference is checkering but recently I have purchased several smooth grips.
The first is a set of John Culina which is the best set of wood grips I have ever owned or shot. There slightly larger than Smith factory at the base and tapered more at the top. Price can be an issue.
The Hogue is on a 24 and I was surprised how well they worked. They were the first finger notched wood grips that I have ever had and work in my hand very well.
The Jerry Mculek is a 21 but he also had square but. They work well but are a little long front to back at the palm. The gun in hot weather does just what Hal said.
My suggestion is to NOT take any ones suggestion including mine. You have to feel a set of grips on a gun like yours before you buy. Good quality grips are expensive and if they don’t fit your hand, well it’s just one more thing to complain about.
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File Type: jpg Hogue.jpg (90.4 KB, 30 views)
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Old February 26, 2013, 11:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
The 28 is a double action & that's the way you want to shoot it.
The 28 is a double action & you shoot it any way you darn please.

As far as I know, 28s were all square butt, eithe 4 or 6 inch. The original factory grips are the small "Magna" style. Any other grip is a replacement.

Smooth, or checkered wood, its up to you. My favorite 28 wears a set of Pachmyr grips, which give the gun a round butt look. Hogue has a grip that does the same thing, look like a round butt, but actually covering the guns square butt frame.

I like my grips, they are hand filling, they do not slip (the rubber is "soft"), they work quite well for me. For you? Only you know.

Nothing wrong with shooting DA, but its not the only thing the gun does well.
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Old February 27, 2013, 03:45 AM   #7
Hal
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Quote:
The 28 is a double action & you shoot it any way you darn please.
People such as Bryce and Jordan agree that shooting a D/A revolver S/A is a habit that could one day get you dead.

Last edited by Hal; February 27, 2013 at 05:42 AM.
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Old February 27, 2013, 09:17 AM   #8
saleen322
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Model 28

The model 28 is a fine revolver. Being a N frame, it is strong and the weight makes it easier to shoot. My 28 is actually a 5-screw, pre-model 28 and just called Highway Patrolman. They have an outstanding trigger with the single action stage as good as a lot of target guns and S&W always was near top of the heap with their double action trigger. The weight of the gun with the good adjustable sights make the 28 very desirable. Best of luck with yours.

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Old February 27, 2013, 02:59 PM   #9
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Bryce & Jordan were both unique individuals & advocated practices that fit THEM, THEIR needs, THEIR abilities, and THEIR times.

I started in LE with DA revolvers.
I understand the value of learning to shoot well in DA mode.
I taught it to cops.

That said- It IS NOT the ONLY way to shoot a DA revolver, and the idea that you should be struggling to attain sufficient ability to hit a target at 50 yards with a DA trigger pull when you can get that hit much easier by cocking the hammer & using an SA trigger pull is absurd.

Yes, skill in DA mode for defensive use within certain distances is advisable, but in my case, if I want to HIT something ACCURATELY much beyond 25-30 yards and I have the time, I'll cock the gun. Most especially if it's a small target or target area. And I won't apologize to anybody for it.

That's one of the great advantages of the DA revolver- effective combat or defensive use up relatively close is achievable with DA shooting, with the SA option of cocking it & using a much easier short & light (with less muzzle wobble for most) trigger pull for greater accuracy at greater distances.

I emphatically disagree with anybody who tries to insist that the DA revolver ONLY be used one way.
Myself, and I still carry a DA on occasion, I'll use whichever mode gives me the greatest odds of hitting where & what I'm trying to hit.
I'll tell you back in my deerhunting days when I tried it one year using only a 6-inch 28, I did not fire at that deer at 75 yards using the DA trigger pull.

For recreational users who don't depend on a 28 for defense, use it any way you want when playing with it at the range.
For hunters, use it whichever way gives you your best shot.
For defensive carriers, learn the DA pull well, but don't believe the BS about it being the ONLY way to shoot.

Great as Jordan was, he was not the absolute last word in revolver carry and use.
What worked in his skilled hands, in his day, and in his environment, is NOT binding on everybody today.
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Old February 27, 2013, 03:12 PM   #10
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Injury and arthritis forces some of us to adapt our shooting styles.
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Old February 27, 2013, 04:30 PM   #11
Hal
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Quote:
Bryce & Jordan were both unique individuals & advocated practices that fit THEM, THEIR needs, THEIR abilities, and THEIR times.
Bull - both men taught their methods, Bryce taught the FBI -so - it's ignorant to say something like that.

Instead of launching off on some line of utter nonsense, I suggest you go read up on both men.

I learned how to shoot a D/A from the East Cleveland Police departmnet instructor & he taught the proper - D/A only way.
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Old February 27, 2013, 05:44 PM   #12
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Grips are like footwear-they must be comfortable, otherwise they're no good. My S&W M-57 came with a beautiful pair or rosewood grips but wears Herrett's, I can't even fire my Combat Masterpiece with wadcutters and S&W factory grips, Bill Jordan found they didn't fit his hand either. My M-27 wears Pachmayrs.
The M-28 is one of the Great Revolvers, IMHO.
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Old February 27, 2013, 06:14 PM   #13
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Hal,
No, the idea of only shooting a DA revolver in DA mode is bull.

I read Jordan 35 years ago. I disagreed then & disagree now with a couple of his concepts.
I know who "Jelly" Bryce was.
I've been in the biz of handgunnery, both personal & professional, for 41 years now.

Both of those men lived in different times.
Both of those men were exceptional "athletes" in handgunnery, with exceptional skills & abilities that the vast majority of DA revolver owners today simply will not spend expensive time & ammunition to even come close to achieving.

Both men taught governmental agencies methods that worked to a degree, largely because those methods were leaps beyond anything else being taught at the time.
Jordan was able to reach such an elevated level of skill with his own method because he was naturally gifted with great hand & eye coordination, and he had the ability & willingness to practice far beyond what 99% of today's DA revolver shooters ever will.

Despite the fact that the methods used & taught by these guys 50 years & more in the past were better than nothing, they have been superseded in some areas by more modern techniques that work better for most shooters.

In 1976 at my first PD our firearms instructor (bless his soul) was an old-school transplanted Easterner who'd been trained in the old one-hand FBI Crouch method of shooting.
He was fast at it, and within certain distances he was quite accurate at it.
At one qualifier (small department) he had us all do a man-on-man elimination shootout, with him taking on the "last man standing".

That man was me, and I won, by using a more modern (and more effective) style that used the sights from a two-handed hold.
And I wasn't even that good. It was my technique that won over his, it wasn't me as an individual.
Aimed fire from a steady two-hand hold vs unaimed point & shoot from a one-handed crouch.

At one time, that crouch was the accepted teaching.
At one time it was taught by your two examples.
Times change, improvements come along.
If something works better for me then you can be sure I'll use it. That includes a mix of DA & SA when I deem appropriate, as I mentioned above.
Why handicap yourself?

Jordan's skills were Jordan's skills, and his methods are not cast in granite.
Times change, styles advance, methods improve.

What worked for him in the 1950s isn't binding on anybody today.
What the FBI was taught & used has been surpassed, and not just because they now use autopistols.

What you call the "proper" way is YOUR style, and I couldn't care less if you use it.
I do take exception, and always will, to the dogmatic statement that there's only one way to shoot a DA revolver.
It particularly annoys me when somebody tries to foist that erroneous nonsense off onto a new shooter who may not be experienced enough to know better.
Denis
(Edited for spelling.)

Last edited by DPris; February 27, 2013 at 06:57 PM.
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Old February 27, 2013, 09:45 PM   #14
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I got a 28 and have been loving it, great revolver. It should be a lot of fun.
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Old February 27, 2013, 09:48 PM   #15
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I'd love to own an old 27 or 28 one day, beautiful guns.
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Old February 28, 2013, 07:38 AM   #16
Hal
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Quote:
the vast majority of DA revolver owners today simply will not spend expensive time & ammunition to even come close to achieving.
It's not all that much more expensive in terms of money or time to learn it right from the beginning.
& what better place to start than with a newbie that's a blank slate?

Quote:
Aimed fire from a steady two-hand hold vs unaimed point & shoot from a one-handed crouch.
So - you beat him by thumbing back the hammer and shooting S/A?
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Old February 28, 2013, 04:02 PM   #17
DPris
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No, Hal, I beat him by firing DA, as we were trained to do. Nobody was allowed to fire SA up to 25 yards, the max we trained at & the max we fired that day.
My point is that techniques often become outmoded & replaced by more efficient ones.
Another example would be those taught to the Shanghai Police by Sykes & Fairbairn in the early part of the last century.
Far better than no training program, neither their choice of issued weapon nor the empty-chamber-carry they required hold up today.

Jordan's one-hand crouch worked for him, but it's long outdated.
My 1976-era firearms instructor "grew up" in policing with that outdated method. Even using a bad or lesser technique, it's possible with practice & a certain amount of natural "talent" to get reasonably good at it.

Starting out with a better technique simply puts you ahead of the game from the beginning.

Our shootoff that day started with two men back at the 25-yard line. On the first whistle each moved forward toward his own silhouette target. On the second whistle, each drew & fired one shot at his target as quickly as safely possible, then re-holstered.
Repeat till the revolver was empty.
Scoring was simple- point for getting the first shot off, point for a hit.

The instructor was fast, but I won because he missed a couple at the farther distance, and I had six holes on my target at the end.
When all's said & done, it's hits that count, and you use the method that's most likely to get those.

Carrying that premise on (an outdated technique favored by Jordan & Bryce), even though it did work for those two unusually talented men, it certainly was feasible within certain distances, and it was far better than no organized training program at all, it was far from the absolute best do-it-this-way-ONLY defensive shooting method for everybody.

Once people began to hang on with TWO hands & USE those sights, hit ratios as distances lengthened changed markedly in general.

The same applies to DA shooting only.
Inside relatively short distances & in a hurry, it's your best bet & you should learn it.
Having taught cops the DA revolver, I can say from experience that beyond 7 yards firing DA only, the percentage of hits decreases greatly.

Yes- learn to shoot accurately and steadily with a DA trigger IF you plan to use the gun for defense. WITHIN realistic distances.
But don't cripple yourself by forcing yourself to stick to ONLY the DA trigger in all shooting situations, and especially don't do it because Jordan said it was the only way to conduct business.

(Jordan also advocated routinely carrying your duty revolver in your duty holster unsecured & with the strap snapped around the holster body to enable the fastest possible draw, unless or until you "anticipated" strenuous activity where the gun might fall out, in which case you should then snap the strap over the hammer. That one just about floored me when I first read it.
I do respect the man & his achievements, but he wasn't God & his writings were not chiseled in stone on a mountaintop to be followed to the letter by all.)

If you can't hit anything beyond 25 yards consistently in DA mode, and time permits, then cock the blasted hammer and do what it takes to get your hit.

As Jordan himself said more than once- accuracy is the final decider.
Do what it takes, given your own equipment & ability, to get those hits.

And having said that, I won't hi-jack this one any further.
Hal, do whatever you want with your own guns, but you're dead wrong in trying to force DA-only on the OP, or anybody else.

I currently own many DA revolvers, including an unfired 6-inch 28 & a much-customized 28 (with a modified rounded gripframe). The 28s are great revolvers.
I do not & will not shoot any of them DA-only to the exclusion of reason & reality.

When I shoot, I do so to hit whatever I'm shooting at, and I'll do it in whichever way seems most indicated at the moment.
Processes are important, but when we're looking at something that's so intensely goal-oriented, I refuse to limit myself to one single process when it so adversely affects my chances of achieving my end goal.
Denis
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Old February 28, 2013, 04:27 PM   #18
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Would we also demand that someone who buys a Super Redhawk in .44 Magnum to hunt deer or a Smith & Wesson X-frame .460XVR to hunt cape buffalo that he should only ever shoot, practice, or otherwise handle his revolver in double action only? And never work on his single action shooting skills or attempt a shot at a game animal in single action? That's ludicrous.

Bill Jordan was a legendary figure...but far from perfect. Let's not emulate every single thing about historical figures.
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Old March 1, 2013, 06:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Would we also demand that someone
Obviously we wouldn't....
I wouldn't demand that someone do anything.
I would suggest to someone that they do a gut check at that point and do an in depth review of how serious they are about using a D/A revolver any more for defensive use.

& - there's nothing at all ludicrous about minding details...as the old saying goes - take care of the details and the problems go away.
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Old March 1, 2013, 07:35 AM   #20
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OP - congrats on the 28. They are fine handguns. And IMO they used to be one of the best bargains out there (I'm a big N frame fan). Only a few years ago you could find minty examples for around $400 or so. Not so true today, prices have gone up quite abit.

As for the side discussion on SA/DA. That's been interesting. Both fellows bring up some good points.
But, as Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."

You often see new shooters at the range with DA revolvers who never shoot them DA. They only thumbcock them because its much easier to get hits on target that way. (And much less 'embarrassing' at a public range.) Getting in such a habit is a bad idea. It negates the advantage the DA revolver has in terms of speed and ease of use (like a Glock !)
On the other hand, given that a handgun is a relatively short range weapon, if that range is extended it makes sense to thumb cock in order to have access to the lighter, precise single action pull. I often shoot my DA hunting revolvers this way. I just about exclusively shoot my DA defensive revolvers in DA mode. This is how they will likely be used. I shoot them SA to get an idea of where they send the bullet when the range is stretched out some, but mostly its DA.
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Old March 1, 2013, 08:56 AM   #21
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The 28 to me was the last of the old school revolvers. Short on frills, long on durabiliity. A revolver built for the one gun guys that will last a life time.
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Old March 1, 2013, 09:54 AM   #22
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Reading this topic makes me wonder if some posting really have any experience with the Model 28 and similar revolvers.

I've read a bit of both Bryce & Jordan. Jordan I can agree with in most parts, Bryce, not so much so. Not saying Bryce doesn't know what he's talking about but he was FBI. They run around in suits with concealed weapons. I doubt they ever carried a Model 28.

I was a street cop, I wore a uniform and a duty belt, so Jordan carried his service revolver much the way I did, except he carried (for the most part) a Model 19, I carried a Model 28.

I also carried full magnum loads. To me, with 357s the Model 28 is easier to shoot then the Model 19 do to the weight difference. I use the hard rubber grips that make for easier to maintain your grip.

Most of my shooting was double action. For fast, point, and one hand shooting it's quicker. For slow deliberate fire I went with the single action.

They make and call it a "DOUBLE" action for a reason, so you have the option of double or single action.

I was issued my '28 when I hired on with the Anchorage Police Dept in '74, carried it most of my 20 years in LE and still have it 19 years after I retired in '94 (they gave me the gun when I retired.

I've shot it a heck of a lot, mostly with full blown 357s. Shot it more then any other gun I have. It works.

I've had K frames and they just don't hold up to that many heavy rounds.

A Model 19 is a 38 you shoot 357s occasionally, a Model 28 is a 357 you can shoot 38s occasionally.

I shoot a lot of action style pistol shooting, and when I need power I use my Model 28 (nothing says authority like cast SWCs at 1300 fps taking bowling pins off the table). I can shoot faster double action but even with pins, with single action I can easily take 5 pins off the table in 5 shots.

You throw in a miss or two, the slower single action is indeed faster.

As to Bryce & Jordan, pick you experts based on the way you shoot. Nothing against the FBI but they don't work like I did. They work in pairs, we rode in one man cars. FBI doesn't do building searches, we did every night, FBI doesn't do many bar fights, we did.

I doubt Bryce or Jordan had to put down may moose and other large animals, I did, a lot of them. I wanted a heavy revolver that I could use either double or single action. I read Keith.

Same with the military, Abrams tank crews don't work the same way as light infantry paratroopers. They need different guns and tactics.

For plain cloths, concealed carry, I'd read Bryce, for a street cop, in uniform and a gun belt, I'd go Jordan.

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Old March 1, 2013, 09:57 AM   #23
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Quote:
The 28 is a double action & that's the way you want to shoot it.
So...enlighten me.
If you decide to take your DA Model 28, 29, Redhawk, Super Redhawk, Ragin Bull deer, hog, et al hunting, you "want" to shoot it Double Action because that is what it is? If true, why were they not made DAO?

Is there not a single action cock notch on all these for a reason?
Do you shoot DA when load test off a rest for accuracy?
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Old March 1, 2013, 10:28 AM   #24
Mike Irwin
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I'm positive that my shooting my 28s, 19s, 58s, 24s, 25s, etc., single action on the range will some day make me dead.

In fact, I'm counting on it.

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Old March 1, 2013, 10:36 AM   #25
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better be careful Mike
A fat whitetail might get the drop on you if you ear back that hammer and take precise aim.
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