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Old February 22, 2013, 12:37 PM   #1
Magnum Wheel Man
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any "Wild catters" out there ??? what are you doing ???

don't see much of this stuff... seems the reloading forum is overwhelmed with newbie reloaders... I've been reloading for around 20 years, & like reloading almost as much as shooting... I like coloring out side of the box... I assume there are a few more like me...

some of my odd ball stuff...

1st off, reload alot of different Contender cartridges TCU's etc... most of mine are pretty mainstream...

I bought an Automag 4 many many years ago, & started loading 10 mm magnum... that one gets out there a little... BTW, I chambered my S&W 610 to 10 mag as well, & added a Contender barrel, so I now load that cartridge for 3 different guns...

I started collecting early black powder cartridge era pocket guns, & am now loading one of the early 44 Bull Dog varriants... mine uses light 44-40 bullets & cut off 44 special cases...

I shoot alot of 22 Hornet, but for "S&G", I converted my Raging Hornet to a Dan Wesson style switch barrel, & used a 1 in 9" twist barrel instead of the stock 1 in 12" twist, allowing me to stabilize up to 70 grain bullets out of the 6" revolver barrel... I was so impressed, that I put a 1 in 9" twist barrel on my Ruger 77 Hornet rifle... I really like this combo... some may not think of it as a "wildcat" since I kept the original chamberings, but just try finding reloading data for a 68 grain bullet in the 22 Hornet

next was a combination of the old Velo-Dog cartridge, the 22 CCM, & the 22 rimfire magnum... my Taurus 8 shot 22 magnum was converted to center fire, a couple 100 cases were lathe turned ( I used both free machining steel, & stainless for my case stock ) the cyinder chambers were massaged a little, & I have basically a center fire 22 magnum...

My newest project... some may remember my thread on the 257 magnum from several years back ( I was originally thinking about chambering my "Raging" to 257 magnum, before the fast twist project ) now I'm converting my stainless Ruger Single 10 to an 8 shot 257 "special"... normal wildcat 257 magnum cases are 1.3" long, but on the compact "Single" frame, I only have room for 38 special length cases, so 22 hornet cases will be shortened to 1.1 or 1.2" & the gun will be converted to center fire, & fitted with a new 8 shot cylinder & a .257 chunk of barrel ( the ballance of the barrel will be used for a custom Contender barrel in the same caliber )

I'm sure I may have one of two projects that have slipped my memory that probably count as "wildcats"

so who's in the club, & what are you playing with ???
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Old February 22, 2013, 12:44 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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I don't think it counts really, but I have a 243 AI.

I have an idea for a wildcat, based on the AI but I haven't actually done it yet. It's similar to but different than the 6mm Dasher... different enough, especially since it's my idea.

I built it in QuickLoad and QL likes it a LOT.

Someday I'll build it in the real world.
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Old February 22, 2013, 12:50 PM   #3
Magnum Wheel Man
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definately go for it man...

... I know, $$$... I'm lucky in that I have a retired buddy that is extremely talented & loves doing odd ball stuff to keep his mind sharp, then doesn't charge me enough ( only enough to fund his next project )
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Old February 22, 2013, 01:00 PM   #4
Brian Pfleuger
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I'm hoping to soon... it doesn't even require custom reamers, or special cases or anything. Probably neck-turning would be the "toughest" part, on a continuing basis. Dies need to be modified but anybody with a lathe could do it.
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Old February 22, 2013, 05:25 PM   #5
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I have wanted to build a rifle based around my own version of something that resembles .270-257 Improved (or 6.8x57mm if you prefer), for quite some time now.
But... it would be a very expensive project.

It would be built on a long action, in order to accommodate long/heavy bullets.

And, since there's a very limited supply of long/heavy bullets in .27 caliber, I'd have to make my own. The swaging dies, alone, would cost more than the entire rifle build; and then I'd still need swaging materials and a press.

There are also no suitable wildcat dies or reamers (that I know of), that could easily be modified for the project.
Almost everything about the project requires one-off tools.

For now, it's in the "When I win the lottery" category.



I have also been wondering what to do with an 8mm barrel I have lying around, though. Lately my thoughts have been centering around 8x51R (.30 WCF necked up to 8mm). It would bear some resemblance to 8x50R Siamese and 8x51R Mauser, but that is merely coincidence.
I'd prefer something like .32 Ballard Extra Long or .32 Ideal in the 8mm bore, but I don't want to pay for a custom run of brass.
Whatever happens, the project won't go anywhere until I have an action and funding...
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Old February 22, 2013, 05:49 PM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
And, since there's a very limited supply of long/heavy bullets in .27 caliber, I'd have to make my own. The swaging dies, alone, would cost more than the entire rifle build; and then I'd still need swaging materials and a press.
There's a strong chance that I may be entering the custom bullet making business.... if so, you buy the dies, I'll make the bullets.

You do seem to like that big-bore stuff.

One of the best parts about my theoretical cartridge (the .243Pfleuger) is that it requires essentially no special tools or parts.

First thing I need to do is cut down a case and check it's weight and water capacity so I know where I'm going with it.
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Old February 22, 2013, 06:34 PM   #7
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Frankenmauser, what do you consider long heavy bullets in .27 caliber? It's kinda neat watching what you can do with some brass laying around,,,, lets see a sample maybe........
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Old February 22, 2013, 06:37 PM   #8
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Right now I am working on necking a 7WSM down to 6mm. I know it has already been done, but I am trying to push the shoulder as far as possible and am planning on using a tremendous amount of freebore. The only thing holding me up at the moment is the barrel maker I am using is balking at the gain twist rate I am asking for. If all goes as planned it should push 4600FPS.
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Old February 22, 2013, 06:41 PM   #9
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Frankenmauser. Dies and reamers are no problem. If you can dream it, the manufacturers will build it for you. They will even put your name on it. I named my last wildcat after me. In hindsight, I should have named it "barrel burner."
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Old February 22, 2013, 07:04 PM   #10
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Dies and reamers are no problem.
Cartridge dies are no problem. Bullet swaging dies are many hundreds of dollars, pushing $1,000 sometimes. Still "no problem", they'll make whatever you want, but they're expensive.
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Old February 22, 2013, 07:40 PM   #11
reynolds357
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I quit making my bullets and sold my stuff years ago. It is at the point now that anything you could possibly want in a hunting bullet is being commercially made and the bench rest bullets are shooting better than the ones we were making. The only thing I wish I had kept was the .416 stuff.
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Old February 22, 2013, 09:19 PM   #12
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My two are a 6.5-06, throated for 140SGK and a 338-06, throated for 250 Partitions. I'm intrigued by a 6.5 on the WSM case.
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Old February 22, 2013, 09:59 PM   #13
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I'm still tinkering with my 243AI.
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Old February 22, 2013, 11:50 PM   #14
Romeo 33 Delta
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I'm working on my "FAMILY MARTINI": All mathmatically proportioned to the original .577-450 case ... pic l to r ... below (parent case)

.577-450 M-H original case

.400 K-M (.500 NE) .408" bullet
.375 K-M (.348 Win) .375" bullet
.358 K-M (.38/56 WCF) .358" bullet

.320 K-M (.444 Marlin) .321" bullet* same case
.310 K-M (.444 Marlin) .312" bullet* same case

.300 K-M (.303 Savage) .308" bullet
.280 K-M (.30/30 WCF) .284" bullet
.250 K-M (.357 Maximum) .257" bullet
.220 K-M (.218 Bee) .224" bullet

also.... second pic, shown next to a .577-450 case

.402 Enfield-Martini (500 NE) The Brits dropped it in favor of their new .303 round.

Dies on hand, brass all done (75 to 150 of each).
Just waiting on the rifles.


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Attached Images
File Type: jpg Picture 114.jpg (137.1 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 116.jpg (128.3 KB, 44 views)
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Old February 23, 2013, 02:41 AM   #15
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger
One of the best parts about my theoretical cartridge (the .243Pfleuger) is that it requires essentially no special tools or parts.
That's where the 6mm Pedersen shines, as well (my 6mm 'Wildcat').
A Redding .243 Win FL-sizing die can reach the shoulder, when used with my Hornady shell holder; and an RCBS .243 Win Small-Base die can squeeze the body to the right diameter (if needed).

For general discussion and load development purposes, it's a .243 Win. But, when you're dealing with the brass and the chamber ... it requires special handling, like a wildcat. 6mm Pedersen will chamber like butter in a .243 chamber, but not the other way around.
I can ONLY use unfired R-P factory brass for the 6mm Pedersen, due to Remington's sub-SAAMI brass specs - and it doesn't really expand more than about 0.002", depending on the lot.
Anything that's ever been fired in a factory .243 Win chamber is no-go. It'll never fit in the wildcat, again, due to spring-back (at least with the dies I use).

I have an old cell-phone picture of the "caliber stamp" around here somewhere...
(The rifle is marked "243ST" under the barrel - the gunsmith's abbreviation of "243 Super Tight".)


Quote:
Frankenmauser, what do you consider long heavy bullets in .27 caliber? It's kinda neat watching what you can do with some brass laying around,,,, lets see a sample maybe........
If I could, I would....
I'm really looking forward to the first .17 WSM case I come across. It'll make great 6mm-7mm jackets (ideal for .27 caliber ). But, until then... I'm stuck looking at a $1,200+ price tag and a 20+ month wait for just the basic swaging dies needed for the bullets I envision.

In my head, I see 175 gr VLD up to maybe 215 gr bullets. As I said... LONG for .27 caliber.


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That's some interesting stuff, Romeo.


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Old February 23, 2013, 09:26 AM   #16
Brian Pfleuger
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What was the goal in developing the Pederson?

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; February 23, 2013 at 03:56 PM.
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Old February 23, 2013, 02:53 PM   #17
FrankenMauser
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Case life, consistency, no need for special tools, and having something different engraved on the barrel.

I wanted a longer barrel for more velocity, but got a good deal on a Shilen Match contoured 26" blank. To clean up the muzzle end and breech face, it got chopped to a little over 25". So far, I'm perfectly happy with the results.

I'm a little foggy today (sick), but I think the cost for the job was something like $415, including the barrel, everything in the rebarrel/rechamber job, the small base die set, bluing, and a little action work. The smith even offered to blue the receiver for almost nothing (it doesn't show in the image, but it is a very obvious Ruger purple). I declined. I like the 'distinguished' aged purple look on older Ruger 77s.
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Old February 23, 2013, 03:28 PM   #18
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I'm working on my "FAMILY MARTINI": All mathmatically proportioned to the original .577-450 case

Interesting, I too like shooting the old MHs. Never thought of wildcatting this one. The case can hold a tremendous amount of powder. The only issues I see is you need a 50 BMG press due to the MH's large case. Even worse, is the extreme scarcity of boxer primmed brass. I have reloaded 577/450 on a standard size press. I have to neck size only using a 480 Ruger dies to seat and crimp the bullet. A crude method but it works.
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Old February 23, 2013, 04:14 PM   #19
Brian Pfleuger
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Well, I've been inspired to make a cut-down "prototype" of my .243 Pfleuger cartridge, so I could get a real measurement of case weight, capacity and dimensions.

QuickLoad says I could get 2,902fps with a 100gr Speer BTSP with 30.5gr RL17. The .243Win can get 3,135fps with 48.0gr N560.... So I'm losing 232fps, 7.4% velocity, but using 36.4% less powder.

With a 105gr Berger VLD, I only lose 17 yards on MPBR.

Pictured next to a .243Win

All rights reserved and all that....

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File Type: jpg .243Pfleuger (363x640).jpg (132.4 KB, 195 views)
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Old February 23, 2013, 07:24 PM   #20
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I have other "real" long-range rifles (like to put together Savages), but I like to screw around with a Mosin-Nagant build occasionally when I get bored...
Cheap, and fun to play with. But it's near impossible to get much better than minute of angle accuracy even when I get one with a good barrel.

So...I'd really like to get a 6.5 mm. blank, and do a 6.5 x 54R- same caliber that won the biathlon for the USSR in '76...

Brass prep/neck turning would no doubt be a pain in the wazoo, but I'm thinking it would be comparable to the 6.5-.06.
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Old February 25, 2013, 06:59 AM   #21
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^^^ My local builder buddy is working on one of these right now... he's already talked to PTG about a reamer, but has been trying to find an actual cartridge to verify actual cartridge dimensions
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Old February 25, 2013, 07:38 AM   #22
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Cylinder stock went to the lathe over the weekend, we are taking a couple .001's out of the frame window, on the bottom, & will not screw the barrel much past the frame to gain as much length on the cylinder ( there is a pretty big gap between the frame & cylinder up by the forcing cone, so we'll be take up as much of that as possible ) no problem fitting 8 - 22 Hornet rims into the cylinder... I use Remington cases for stuff like this, since they don't have a crimp groove on the brass like the winchesters do, my builder buddy doesn't have any Remington cases laying around, so I'll be taking a couple over today, to try trimming to 1.2"... the .257 barrel blank should be here by end of week, or 1st of next week... my buddy will be hand cutting reamers for the dies & cylinder, the reamer blanks should be here some time this week... yesterday we pressed out the firing pin retaining bushing, & discussed the best process to switch the frame to center fire...

all new metal will be blued, but will go on a stainless frame, so the finished product will be a combination of blued & stainless, but it should be a nice little 8 shot revolver that shoots .257 bullets out of 1.2" tapered Hornet cases...

this same buddy takes soft point light 6mm bullets & swages them to short soft point .257 bullets for his custom 25's, so I have a couple of his bullets to try... he's offered his equipment for me to use, if I want to buy the bullets, for the custom ones, or I can load with some of the lighter flat points for this revolver...
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Old April 8, 2013, 05:40 PM   #23
ammo.crafter
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Contender

Necked down 444 Marlin brass to 35 caliber producing a 358 Bellm. A real powerhouse using 200gr bullet moving out at 2300 f/s.

For pinpoint shooting try necking down 30-30 brass to 7mm making a 7x30 Waters. Deadly accurate with Barnes TTSX 120gr.
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Old April 23, 2013, 02:16 PM   #24
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make your own...

Have several "home-made" calibers. The most recent is a .358 Bellm out of a 19-inch reworked contender barrel. Use .444 Marlin brass and run thru a .356 Winchester die to form the neck and shoulder . .444 brass should be trimmed to 2.220-inches prior to forming. This seems to be a round that can handle any creature in continental US.
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Old April 23, 2013, 02:32 PM   #25
Magnum Wheel Man
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WOW !!! noticed I never did a follow up on the 257 "special"

here are a couple pics...



sorry for the poor quality of this pic... used my antique digi I keep at work...

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