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Old October 7, 2012, 07:45 PM   #1
Ervin
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W 231 vs W 296 for .30 M1 Carbine

Im reloading .45 ACP with 231 and was loading 30 Carbine with 296 before it ran out. Im now wondering about how well 231 does in 30 Carbine.

Before any of you old timers get worked up, I dont intend on just using these powders interchangeably. Im well aware that 296 is too slow for 45 ACP.


W231 for a plinking 30 CAR load?
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Old October 7, 2012, 07:59 PM   #2
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It might work but too fast. Get some 2400.
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:22 PM   #3
Sevens
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Kind of sounds like you don't know what on Earth you are doing.

You would be much safer putting piles of W296 in a .45 Auto case, as much as you can and stuffing a bullet on it than you would be putting any W231 in a .30 Carbine case.

But then again, maybe you've got it all figured out already.
I'd help, but I don't care to get all worked up over it.

Wear a helmet and go shooting on a range with no innocent people nearby.
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:30 PM   #4
hodaka
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Ervin,

Ignore the insults. No question is a bad one. 231 is too fast for a carbine load although you could probably get a bullet to exit the barrel without blowing up the gun with a small amount of it in a case. I use 296 and 2400 in my 30 carbine loads. Save the 231 for your 45 or your 38's and others.
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:37 PM   #5
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4227 is also a good carbine powder.
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:51 PM   #6
Ervin
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"Kind of sounds like you don't know what on Earth you are doing."
Amazing....I love this forum for it's civility. Dont ruin it.

I wore a kevlar overseas for a year without rest, I came back expecting just a little bit more respect.
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Old October 7, 2012, 09:45 PM   #7
Sevens
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Quote:
Before any of you old timers get worked up
Touche'.

Fast burning powders in applications where slow burners are called for is dangerous. Using slow burners in fast applications simply doesn't work well, but is only "dangerous" with regards to stuck/lodged bullets.

W231 is a very popular, fast burning target powder. It's great for .45, and likely why you are using it.

For alternatives in .30 Carbine, especially in a semi-auto gas-op rifle (I specify because I load .30 Carb for a revolver myself), other viable options:
H110 (same powder as your W296 with a different label on it)
IMR-4227
AA#9
AA#7
Lil'Gun

...others, I'm sure. I have worked up some Blue Dot loads in a Ruger Blackhawk but wasn't happy with them and I'm not sure they'd produce a proper gas volume to run a carbine.
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Old October 7, 2012, 09:46 PM   #8
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Oops, as hodaka said in his first post, Alliant 2400. No proper reason why I left that out -- 97% of all the .30 Carbine I've loaded and fired has been with Alliant 2400.
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Old October 7, 2012, 09:56 PM   #9
Mike Irwin
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As far as I know, 231 has NO application in a carbine. None.
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Old October 7, 2012, 10:02 PM   #10
jcwit
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Quote:
"Kind of sounds like you don't know what on Earth you are doing."
Amazing....I love this forum for it's civility. Dont ruin it.

I wore a kevlar overseas for a year without rest, I came back expecting just a little bit more respect.
I'll start by thanking you for your service, Thank You! Now with that said if you had done just a little research into reloading such as checking out reloading manuals you would have known the folly of what you asked, I'm sorry if this comes across as offensive and I'm trying to put it as gently as possible, but hey. And remember respect is earned, not just from wearing a kevler vest.

This is from 1 vet "8 years, U.S. Army" to another.
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Old October 7, 2012, 10:04 PM   #11
Sevens
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I knew a guy who worked over and re-worked over an M1 Carbine to chamber it in .45 Win Mag. He managed to get his idea mentioned in a blurb in Jeff Cooper's column on the back page of Guns & Ammo magazine.

You can load .45 Win Mag with W231.

That's as close as I can come up with for using W231 in a Carbine.
Of course... there is the Marlin Camp Carbine...
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Old October 8, 2012, 10:50 AM   #12
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"Ervin
W 231 vs W 296 for .30 M1 Carbine
Im reloading .45 ACP with 231 and was loading 30 Carbine with 296 before it ran out. Im now wondering about how well 231 does in 30 Carbine.

Before any of you old timers get worked up, I dont intend on just using these powders interchangeably. Im well aware that 296 is too slow for 45 ACP.

W231 for a plinking 30 CAR load? "


I'm one of those weirdos that thinks that just about any powder can be used in any casing. But just because a load could be worked out, why? First off, this hypothetical load would be 'ifiy' at best in operating a gas operated M1 Carbine. Mite work, sort of, as a single shot.
I know of a fella that says he is working on sub-sonic loads of another 30 cal rifle with 231/HP38 and I have no question that it can be done. But we come back to the question of why?
I know of a loading that runs 'Unique' powder (6 to 6.5gr) under a 115gr lead bullet and it reportedly functions the action.

For 'pinking', you will want the load to be safe and functional and cheap. I feel that these goals can be achieved with more conventional powders and a lot simpler. Look into cast lead loads.

I'm not about to slam you. To the opposite, if this is an exercise in experimentation and all safety matters are full included, go for it. But, please make sure all of your ducks are collected and lined up before you do anything that could hurt you or others.

Be safe,

OSOK
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Old October 8, 2012, 11:09 AM   #13
Sevens
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Quote:
I know of a loading that runs 'Unique' powder (6 to 6.5gr) under a 115gr lead bullet and it reportedly functions the action.

For 'pinking', you will want the load to be safe and functional and cheap. I feel that these goals can be achieved with more conventional powders and a lot simpler. Look into cast lead loads.
I would be concerned with plugging up the gas port with bits of lead...a condition that would end up being quite difficult to later clean or correct.
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Old October 8, 2012, 11:50 AM   #14
TMD
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I don't have a recommendation for loads in a M1 but if your shooting a .30 carbine blackhawk I've had great results with Unique.
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Old October 8, 2012, 12:07 PM   #15
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I tried loading up some cast slugs for my carbine. I ran about 100 through it and the accuracy was not good. Paper plates at 50 yards were dead but that was about as good as it got. Back to Hornady 110's.
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Old October 8, 2012, 12:38 PM   #16
oldpapps
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"concerned with plugging up the gas port with bits of lead"

I have the same thoughts but the lead shooters don't seem to have problems. I have shot my share of lead in bolts and single shot rifles. Never built up the nerve to try lead in a Garand or M1A or AR/M4. But others do it. The sub-sonic boys are working hard with lead in the 300 AAC Blackout and aren't being bothered with gas block or tube problems (at least none are reporting any). They say it is like hitting with a brick

Enjoy,

OSOK
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Old October 8, 2012, 05:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
I would be concerned with plugging up the gas port with bits of lead...a condition that would end up being quite difficult to later clean or correct.
Quote:
I have the same thoughts but the lead shooters don't seem to have problems. I have shot my share of lead in bolts and single shot rifles. Never built up the nerve to try lead in a Garand or M1A or AR/M4. But others do it. The sub-sonic boys are working hard with lead in the 300 AAC Blackout and aren't being bothered with gas block or tube problems (at least none are reporting any). They say it is like hitting with a brick
Not a problem at all at least in my Carbines. I've shot literally thousands and thousands of cast bullet rounds thru my carbines with only the occasional barrel and receiver cleaning. Have yet to remove the gas plug and clean the gas chamber or piston. And NO I do not use gas checked bullets.

Quote:
I tried loading up some cast slugs for my carbine. I ran about 100 through it and the accuracy was not good. Paper plates at 50 yards were dead but that was about as good as it got. Back to Hornady 110's.
Want a good plinking and fairly accurate load using cast lead bullets for the U.S. Carbine? Cast 100 grain bullets using the Lee mold #90301, its a flat base with a #2 round nose. I load mine with 12 1/2 grains of 4227 powder, works for me and No leading.

Hope this helps
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Old October 8, 2012, 06:30 PM   #18
SHR970
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W231 has an application in the 30 carbine IF AND ONLY IF you are loading it in a revolver.

It is too fast and does not produce adequate gas volume and pressure at the gas port for cycling a M1 30 Carb.
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Old October 8, 2012, 09:53 PM   #19
JohnMoses
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Quickload says 7.0g of 231 w/ a sierra 110g fmj has 41k pressure (46k sammi max) 1626fps for 646 fpe.
just saying
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Old October 9, 2012, 04:00 PM   #20
RickB
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I discovered that the same charge weight of 4227 works for both .30 Carbine and .44-40, if that helps.
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Old February 24, 2013, 03:04 PM   #21
actionsportsaz
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Did yo ever try 231 in the carbine?
I have made Power Pistol cycle my M1 carbine using a CAST load, at 7 grains, but terrible accuracy.
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