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Old February 5, 2013, 08:34 PM   #1
Bob Wright
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Standard .35 Remington seen....

Had a gun show here in Memphis last Saturday and I browsed the aisles.

Most interesting thing (to see, not to buy) was a Standard Rifle in .35 Remington. I believe it was a Model G.

This was the first commercial gas operated rifle designed. Funny thing was that it could be used as a semi-auto or a slide action rifle.

And the thing looked fairly modern, except for the lack of black plastic now so popular with the younger set.

Not very often seen nowadays.

Bob Wright

Last edited by Bob Wright; February 6, 2013 at 04:33 PM.
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Old February 5, 2013, 09:22 PM   #2
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The Standard Model G (for "gas") has one problem when used as a pump. The user can cut off the gas, but there is no way to disconnect the spring, so you have to pump against the heavy spring. That is not the case with the Model M (for "manual") pump rifle.

It could have been a world beater, but needed more refinement.

Jim
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Old February 5, 2013, 09:31 PM   #3
WillyKern69
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Dumb question, but......

Forgive me, but why would you want a pump option if it is semi-auto? Or vise versa.
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Old February 5, 2013, 10:32 PM   #4
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In ca. 1910, when Standard Arms was in business, it wasn't so much why a buyer would want one or the other - as both autoloading & slide action rifles were relatively new on the American sporting scene at that time.

IMO, Standard most likely felt that a dual-use firearm would appeal to two markets (auto AND slide) instead of just one (auto OR slide).


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Old February 5, 2013, 10:47 PM   #5
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thanks
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Old February 6, 2013, 02:50 AM   #6
Winchester_73
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Quote:
In ca. 1910, when Standard Arms was in business, it wasn't so much why a buyer would want one or the other - as both autoloading & slide action rifles were relatively new on the American sporting scene at that time.

IMO, Standard most likely felt that a dual-use firearm would appeal to two markets (auto AND slide) instead of just one (auto OR slide).
While there is some truth to the idea of it appealing to pump guys, the bigger concept was a backup system for the unreliable gas system. As mentioned, it was the first mass produced gas operated semi rifle, and we're talking ca 1910. The company went out of business due to the rep these rifles got. Instead of getting billed as "latest and greatest" it was more like "new technology, but unreliable, dangerous...". Logically, if the gun has a new technology, and it doesn't work consistantly, then you would need a backup system. Without the pump, some issues/failures would render the gun inoperable. This could have been esp bad in say a LE or hunting scenario (dangerous game).

They were made in .30, .32 and 35 remington. The model M that Jim K mentioned was made at the end, when they decided to pull the plug on the model G, perhaps to improve sales, or to use up already made parts, (or ?) but it ended up being too little, too late for Standard Arms. There was some 7000 Model G guns made, but only 1000 to 2000 of the model M making it one rare bird today. I read somewhere that Numrich bought out the spare parts from the failed company (or from whoever acquired the parts from the company) and assembled more guns with the parts on hand. Numbers vary on how many were assembled after the factory shutdown.

I have 2 of these myself, one of each, I will try and post pics later. They certainly have a special place in history and as Bob mentioned, not seen very often today. I have never fired either of mine.
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Old February 6, 2013, 04:17 AM   #7
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Seems to me some military style shotguns use a similar autoloader/pump dual system.
Besides possible plugged gas port , many hunters still hand loaded using Black Powder, the smokeless powders back then being a bit iffy in quality and not always available, and store bought ammo might not be particulary fresh with some loads not being up to snuff.
Some also liked light cast bullet loads for small game.
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Old February 6, 2013, 07:28 AM   #8
Mike Irwin
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"As mentioned, it was the first mass produced gas operated semi rifle, and we're talking ca 1910."

I thought the Browning-designed Remington Auto Rifle was the first, as it was introduced and marketed in 1906.

It later was renamed the Model 8.
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Old February 6, 2013, 10:31 AM   #9
Bob Wright
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Mike Irwin said:
Quote:
I thought the Browning-designed Remington Auto Rifle was the first, as it was introduced and marketed in 1906.
The Browning was recoil operated, long recoil if I remember correctly. And Winchester had their Model 1905 based on a blow-back system.

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Old February 6, 2013, 11:02 AM   #10
Mike Irwin
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"The Browning was recoil operated"

GAH! Of course it was.

Sigh
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Old February 6, 2013, 03:11 PM   #11
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The Mondragon rifle had this design beat by nearly a quarter century, and was gas operated.
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Old February 6, 2013, 04:29 PM   #12
Bob Wright
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The Standard was the first commercial (sporting) gas operated rifle design.

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Old February 6, 2013, 05:22 PM   #13
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Interesting. Learned about four new things. I never hear of a Mondragon.
Now I don't feel it was such a dumb question.
Thanks guys.

WK
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Old February 6, 2013, 05:59 PM   #14
James K
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I don't know the history of game laws that well, but some states now ban semi-auto rifles for hunting. If a hunter wanted to hunt more than one state, a rifle that could be changed from a pump to a semi-auto might be useful if it were allowed in the no-semi state(s). (Changing the Standard requires a special wrench, so it might have been legal.)

Jim
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Old February 6, 2013, 09:25 PM   #15
Bob Wright
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I just checked and the Browning designed Remington was based on the long recoil system, same as the Auto 5 shotgun.

The Winchester 1905 series were blow-back, with a heavy weight inside the forearm to retard bolt opening.

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Old February 7, 2013, 09:38 PM   #16
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Just wonder if anyone has seen the massive weight inside the foreend of the Model 1910 (.401 caliber). Most folks who pick one up do so like it was a 92 and are really surprised to find it so heavy.

Jim
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Old February 23, 2013, 10:00 PM   #17
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Here is my standard arms model G. Its in 30 Remington. It also has a rack number, so it may have been issued by some agency. I saw one of these recently and the pump and butt plate were polished, because the previous owner didn't realize that the brass has a black finish, almost to resemble patina or something, but thats original to these. I love how ornate they made the pump and butt plate. So in consequence, that model G looked like crap. I don't know why people want to shine up antiques and old guns, when the patina is natural, and it takes a long time to take place. I myself treasure the old look. Sorry for the crappy photos. I don't have pics of my model M, but I will get that done and post those too.






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