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Old February 15, 2013, 03:23 PM   #26
MWalsh
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Quote:
What is so conspicuous about another 18 wheeler going down the road?
This is:

"Suspect last seen driving 18 wheeler going down the road"

Not the most ideal of getaway vehicles.
Quote:
I often read about crimes that I wouldnt have a clue on how to pull off or even get the information I would need to make a plan. But someone does figure out how to do the crime and some get away with it.
They do sometimes. The fact is most criminals are stupid, certainly I'm positive I'm smarter than the average one, and I think that in the grand scheme of things this would be quite a difficult crime to commit. Beyond the difficulty committing it, the relatively low reward, it would also gain attention from other groups like the ATF. It's just a terrible target for a criminal.
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Old February 15, 2013, 07:14 PM   #27
CurlyQ.Howard
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But what about criminal types that have watched Breaking Bad? You know, the drug heist scenes where the semi is stopped along a deserted stretch of highway. Also, my wife and I keep thinking about the military weapons (automatics too) stolen from Chicago freight yards in the late sixties. To this day, I don't know if the criminals were ever apprehended.
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Old February 15, 2013, 07:31 PM   #28
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I could see *existing criminals or criminal organizations* getting into the ammo theft business, if they thought there would be a market for it.

Here's a story about a stolen shipment of oxycodone.

Here's one about a partial shipment of cigarettes that was stolen.

And even a truckload of video games stolen.

And here's a general story about cargo theft.
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Old February 15, 2013, 07:36 PM   #29
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A whole lot of Semi's are tracked by their companies GPS system so the crooks would have to be cognisant of that and know how to disable the system.
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Old February 15, 2013, 07:55 PM   #30
horatioo
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A whole lot of Semi's are tracked by their companies GPS system so the crooks would have to be cognisant of that and know how to disable the system.
I was supposed to put in a sky light in South Carolina once. After waiting 2 days for the truck with the sky light I went home. The truck was finally found about six months later in Tennessee.
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Old February 15, 2013, 09:26 PM   #31
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A long time ago when I loaded trucks for a living, I opened a LTL(less than truckload) to load four pallets. Just a common carrier that took a load every day from my company. It was chock full of boxes with little orange diamonds on them. Ammo destined for a base on the other side of town. I was surprised how much there was and lack of security of government purchased ammo. The driver which I knew well watched my every move. We joked about if he remembered how many pallets there were and how easy it would be to lose one at one of his stops. He had nothing to worry about with me. He was nervous as heck. He told me he hates hauling ammo and did it a few times a month. Easy target if you ask me.
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Old February 15, 2013, 09:49 PM   #32
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I saw a show once on the History Channel, I think, or maybe Speed, and they talked about how the USAF moved nuclear components about in un-marked 18-wheelers.
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Old February 15, 2013, 10:53 PM   #33
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Ammo is big, heavy and not really worth big money. Now, a truckload of pharma, say those little blue Viagra tablets - worth millions. $8/pill vs $1/bullet = easy choice and your wife and/or your girlfriend will thank you.
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Old February 15, 2013, 11:49 PM   #34
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I Was Warned Not To Start This Thread

Not likely -___- at all.
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Old February 17, 2013, 10:27 PM   #35
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Been watching reruns of the A-Team lately?
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Old February 17, 2013, 11:31 PM   #36
mrbatchelor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rembrandt View Post
Would be difficult to "fence" stolen ammo with traceable lot numbers....every dealer & gun shop would be alerted to keep an eye out. Suppose the creative thief could repackaged it.
Yes, but I can't even remember the last time SG Ammo had 5.45x39 on the web site. What used to be dirt-ball cheap import would be valuable now, and I sure can't read the Russian on the side. That could repackage a lot easier than cigarettes, and people smuggle those.
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Old February 18, 2013, 12:25 AM   #37
pilot141
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Capitalism, baby.

It would have to make more sense (financial and cop-heat-wise) for criminal organization (X) to find and hijack said Walmart ammo truck than it would be to send a hundred flunkies out to buy the ammo in the store.

Ammo is not illegal. It is (right now) scarce, so I expect that if you are a gang-banger in Chicago you are probably paying a stiff premium for your 9mm. But that is only because someone had to go buy it legally and is now charging you the standard criminal surcharge.

Is that enough to engineer a truck-hijack operation? Doubtful, since Walmart will have another truck next week and you can send flunkie #2 in to buy the stuff.

There is a big difference between scarce and illegal. That is where the big money is made, and where criminal organizations make their money.
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Old February 18, 2013, 07:03 AM   #38
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My favorite LGS is only about 6 blocks from the local UPS hub. There is a brown truck that pulls up almost every day and they carry in several handtruck loads of guns and ammo.

It wouldn't take too much advance scouting to figure out which truck, hijack that truck and take it to a different location and off load the guns and ammo. It wouldn't be a big haul, but if you got lucky and did it on the right day you could get a lot.

You'd probably have to be quick as I wouldn't be surprised if their trucks aren't equipped with GPS tracking and someone would probably notice a truck off course and notify the police.
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Old February 18, 2013, 11:15 AM   #39
44 AMP
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I believe there is a requirement that HAZMAT shippers have GPS on their trucks. At least trucks registered in the US anyway....

Stuff has been "falling off the truck" for a long time. IF there were a market for black market ammo, it would fall off the truck, too....

How much, and how often would depend on how lucrative a market there was...
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Old February 18, 2013, 11:46 AM   #40
Chaz88
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I know of a small gun range, that also has a gun store, that recently had two orders of ammo valued at $25,000 each go missing in transit. Not a highjacking just never made it past one of the handling points when UPS had custody of it.
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Old February 19, 2013, 10:48 AM   #41
Fishing_Cabin
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It would not be difficult to steal a load of ammunition. Cargo theft is a known problem, and has been for years. Lets discuss some common points...

1. The driver, can take or sell stuff off the truck, then try to disguise it in someway. Not typical nowadays with the trailers having a seal on it to detect tampering, and the GPS systems used. There are ways to defeat both, but its just not common. Also, the driver can be in connection either directly, or set up by a third party, which could lead to a theft.

2. The shipper. An age old trick has been to remove boxes from the center of the pallet, or to some remove full boxes, and replace with empty boxes, so that the pallet apears to be full, until it is broke down and inspected. The shipper can also tip off a theif off a certain load, truck/trailer number, etc, so the theif can identify it later down the road.

3. Typically criminal organizations...They can either work alone, or with help from the shipper, consignee or driver, as I touched on above. Its not too difficult for criminals with some observation skills to learn which trucking companies transport shipments for certain companies. Its kind of low-tech...Basically sit in the car, and watch alittle, then take a more educated chance on which try has the high value products on it. There used to be a rash of truck/cargo thefts in the atlanta area years ago of baby food. Didnt take a rocket scientist for a criminal either...The cargo stole at the time was enroute to a distribution center a couple of miles from a truck stop. There were only a few companies transporting and making the deliveries. Basically the theives thought, "Hey, we know that distribution center has this high value product, and these trucks always stop here to wait for their delivery time, so lets watch for the driver to go inside and get a bite to eat, and take his truck/cargo" Later on, the distribution center, and trucking companies changed things around a bit to it wasnt quite as easy.

While some folks dont notice the markings on trucks, if you watch for a bit you will start to notice the truck/trailer numbers, company name, and MC/DOT numbers on them, as well as some other unique identification too, such as "contracted to "XYZ Manufacturing'"

The GPS tracking system I am most familier with is the older 2 and 3 piece qualcom systems...There were not that hard to defeat back when I started drove a truck full time years ago. The new ones are more difficult, but I am sure with trial and error it could be figured out, and they are also getting to be more integrated with the truck as well, with the introduction of e-logs a few years back. The main issue though would be the GPS systems attachted to the trailers, as they can be hid alot better, but they can also have such information such as when the doors are open/shut, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44AMP
I believe there is a requirement that HAZMAT shippers have GPS on their trucks. At least trucks registered in the US anyway....
No requirement that I am aware of for general Haz-Mat to be tracked. Several local Haz-Mat tanker fleets here I know of dont use any GPS tracking.

I drove a truck for a while before going into law enforcement, and on my days off at times I still drive one for a little extra money.

For those of you who would like to read on some of the quartly reports on cargo theft put out by cargonet.com...

http://www.cargonet.com/cargo_theft_reports.html

A short article from Dec 2012 that discusses the trends briefly...

http://www.securitydirectornews.com/...liest-crime-us
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Old February 19, 2013, 11:07 AM   #42
themalicious0ne
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I really don't know if it would be that hard. I know people that work at Gander Mountain and they say every week or couple weeks when they get a shipment of ammo in they have a line waiting at the door to purchase ammo. It runs like clockwork. Wouldnt be too hard to figure out if its the same driver/truck/ or even where it comes from given time. However improbable something might be, given enough time becomes inevitable.
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Old February 19, 2013, 11:29 AM   #43
Dashunde
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What does an ammunition truck look like?
It's drive axles will be squatted down a bit and found leaving a ammo factory.

Problem is there is likely to be a tracking device hidden within the cargo, that issue would persist until every box was checked.

Too big, too heavy, too difficult to sell off... doesnt seem it would be worth the trouble with so many other pricier smaller things out there to snatch.
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Old February 19, 2013, 09:27 PM   #44
Merad
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Not worth unless prices go up a LOT more.

Let's say you get a truck with 40k lbs of 9mm. Some googling shows that a box of 115 gr 9 mil should weight about 1.6 lbs, so you've just gained yourself 25k boxes of ammo or 1.25 million rounds. Even if you could sell it at $20 per box, you're only talking half a million bucks.

It would be a lot of effort to sell it (without getting caught at least) and the $$ is small potatoes compared to drugs or other less than legal activities.

Yeah, I spent way too much time thinking about this.
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Old February 20, 2013, 02:12 AM   #45
MrDontPlay
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We're gonna need 3 Honda civics...
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Old February 21, 2013, 12:32 PM   #46
JimDandy
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I could wake up tomorrow morning to find a supermodel in my kitchen holding a half gallon of george dickel and a winning lottery ticket.
I'm not sure either of those would be worth finding some dude from a Calvin Klein underwear ad in my Kitchen..

On the subject of hijacked ammo trucks..
I think there's easier ways to get it if you're a criminal. We'd see breakins at gunstores and Cabelas long before it would come to hijacking trucks. And truth be told, shoplifting at Sports Authority and Walmart already has me wishing they didn't carry ammo some days.

Of course, all of this assumes one of the worst premises driving gun control. Owning a gun makes people more- not less- likely to commit crimes.
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Old February 21, 2013, 02:35 PM   #47
breakingcontact
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I'm sure this does indeed happen. If a criminal element wants to possess or sell something that is in short supply, they will steal it or get it through other means.

I don't think the criminals (the unorganized types) are stockpiling ammo though (north of the border anyways).

Suppose if it got expensive enough, the criminals may have a new niche to fill.


"PSSSSTTTT- hey buddy, you looking for ammo?" (opens trunk of car to show unmarked boxes)


This could happen in particular if taxes were to skyrocket (see cigarettes).
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