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Old June 28, 2011, 06:35 PM   #76
wncchester
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Guffey: Anti-impact "charismatics"; the adjective or the noun?

Copied from Am. Heritage Dictionary:

cha·ris·ma (k…-r¹z“m…) noun., pl. cha·ris·ma·ta (-m…-t…). 1.a. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm. b. Personal magnetism or charm. 2. Theology. An extraordinary power, such as the ability to perform miracles, granted to a Christian by the Holy Spirit.

char·is·mat·ic (k²r”¹z-m²t“¹k) adjective: 1. Of, relating to, or characterized by charisma. 2. Theology. Of, relating to, or being a type of Christianity that emphasizes personal religious experience and divinely inspired powers, as of healing, prophecy, and the gift of tongues.



I rarely use gasoline to clean dies but it works and you included it with the cautions of what not to use along with the brake and carb cleaners I do use. I still don't know why we shouldn't use them to clean dies. ?

Still don't know how well your 3/8" tap/bolt works when pulling .223, as the OP needs to do, either. ??

Lots of things are good for case lube but I try to restrict my suggestions to the materials that are both easy to find and inexpensive. Lathe way-lube is generally not easy to find in our corner hardware stores and the cost of quart or gallon sizes it frequently comes in rules it out for most reloaders.

Last edited by wncchester; June 28, 2011 at 07:04 PM.
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Old June 29, 2011, 11:28 AM   #77
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"Lots of things are good for case lube but I try to restrict my suggestions to the materials that are both easy to find and inexpensive. Lathe way-lube is generally not easy to find in our corner hardware stores and the cost of quart or gallon sizes it frequently comes in rules it out for most reloaders"

If you want me to feel sorry for you I will but the next time you go to your local hardware, auto parts store or super market ask them to direct you to the GEAR OIL/DIFFERENTIAL GREASE/LUBE in the automotive lube department, not a new discovery, Lyman packaged this type lube in small containers 40+ years ago.

http://www.ehow.com/list_5954441_dan...-cleaner_.html

And I do not believe every problems has a chemical answer, I clean my chambers and dies with a towel on a dowel. Again, I can not improve on the finish inside the die or chamber, what ever it is in the die that makes it smooth and shinny in my dies can not be improved upon, the embed-ability of a towel removes the only foreign material in my die that can harm it, dirt ,grit and grime. I do not recommend brake clean/degreaser, unless the person recommending it does his home work before making an attempt to push the stuff. And I know it is difficult to accept when someone jumping out in front and says something like, you bet, no problem, good stuff, and then claim they use it, only to find someone that does not agree, I afford my self the luxury of disagreeing.



Google ZEP

Then there was A time I would walk into an automotive shop and not be able to see across the shop, backing plates and drums at that time were cleaned with compressed air, the mechanics had the appearance of having worked in a coal mine, and I ask WHY? WHY blow that stuff every where, after the auto leaves the dust settles on everything, why not use a vacuum cleaner, or a liquid and informing them the dust included asbestos did not open minds, wear asbestos saturated clothes home in the auto, wear the asbestos saturated clothes home to contaminate the home environment.

You are correct "charismatics" should have been characteristics.

"How do you remove the expander plug from stuck bottle neck cases?"



I have a set of drill bits, I have a set of taps, most taps that come in sets are two to the set, a bottom tap and a starter tap. I am not so hard headed that I insist on using a 1/4" tap, I drill the flash hole/primer pocket to a diameter that allows me to remove the primer punch/expander ball assembly out the bottom, again, if the hole is not large enough I get a bigger drill bit, again, I have used the assembly to push cases out of dies, the threads offer leverage and I do not get into a hurry, so how do I remove the expander plug from a bottle neck case, as presented your question implies it can not be done, again I remove the primer punch/expander ball assembly by drilling the primer pocket/flash hole to accommodate removal of the assembly.

On one of the gun smith forums a question was asked about the finish on a pistol, the owner, cleaner of the gun and misinformed owner of a can of brake clean was complaining about the finish that was removed from his pistol by the use of this product, again, this is the Internet, the person pushing was taken serious and recommended brake clean should have taken the time to warn users the manufactures claim their product may remove paint and melt plastic, if for no other reason but for the courtesy, I believe it is irresponsible for the pusher of a product not to have a clue as to product knowledge.

F. Guffey

Last edited by F. Guffey; June 29, 2011 at 11:33 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old June 29, 2011, 12:08 PM   #78
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I get a kick out of threads like this one. If you go back to the original post RCBS says someone else's stuff is a problem. The byline being ... buy my stuff and you won't have a problem.

I liken it to my wife complaining about laundry detergent not rinsing out completely on one cycle.

Me ... honey don't use as much detergent

Her ... the instructions say use this much

Me ... if you sold laundry detergent how much would you tell the people to use, the maximum or the minimum, knowing that when they run out they will buy more of the same brand.

Her (hands on hips) ... you think you know more than the people who make it.

Me ... shut up and drink my beer.
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Old June 29, 2011, 02:32 PM   #79
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"so how do I remove the expander plug from a bottle neck case, as presented your question implies it can not be done,"

Actually, and again, I didn't ask you; I asked the guy who uses a brass punch to drive stuck cases out how he removes the expander, and the only implication is I don't know how that can be done and leave enough web to work on with a punch (but, I'm willing to learn!). Seems a drilled head hole large enough to allow removal of the guts of a .223 decap stem would leave too little web to use a punch to do anything helpful.

And I still wonder how well that 3/8" tap you suggest works on .223 cases. ??
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Old June 29, 2011, 02:47 PM   #80
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I'm not the guy who made the original suggestion but I was able to pull the expander plug assembly up through a stuck case (223). I secured the expander rod in a bench vise and gave it a good yank. It came out without introducing any additional problems.

In my situation the base pulled off the body of the case when the brass was fully inserted. After I removed the expander assembly I took a drift pin and drove the brass out from the top. I just kept the pin moving in a circular direction and whacked it with a small hammer. Sounds crude but it worked really well.
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Old June 30, 2011, 08:07 AM   #81
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Sorry, wnnchester. I missed that one. I grip the die locking collar with the vice, thread two nuts down the shaft, locking one tightly against the other and grip both with vice grips. Wiggle it slightly while pulling up hard.
Its only happened to me maybe 6 or 7 times, but the removal has worked that way every time.

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Old June 30, 2011, 09:39 AM   #82
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zfk55, flashhole, pulling the primer punch/sizer ball through the top is made easier by placing a tube on top of the die with a nut against if while jamming the two lock nuts to the threaded shaft, holding the two lock nuts will prevent the shaft from turning while turning the nut down to remove the assembly, there is leverage to be gained with the incline plain of the threads, and, nothing gets chewed up with the vise and vise grips and the pull is straight.

On larger cases this method becomes more complicated and difficult when the sizer ball is pulled through the neck, displacing the brass with the sizer ball can results in pulling the assembly shaft apart.

Again, the die can be secured in the press, you will not believe the number of times a handy person has hit them self between the eyes while pulling on a tool with both hands, I have never tried it but a slide hammer could work, never tried it.

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Old June 30, 2011, 09:43 AM   #83
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http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=600143

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Old June 30, 2011, 10:28 AM   #84
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I'm not sure what that link was telling me??
Anyway, thanks for the post. Maybe I'll try it next time, but so far I'm not having a problem.

Thanks

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Old July 3, 2011, 03:29 PM   #85
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For case lube, I use STP. Cases size easier (you can actually feel the difference) and I no longer get any stuck cases. Just a slight amount from the case lube pad is all that is needed. I also use STP on all the moving points on my presses.

As for stuck cases, Most of my dies are Lee. To remove a stuck case from the sizing die, you simply use a wrench and unscrew the decaping pin holder and tap with a hammer (brass one is best).
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Old July 3, 2011, 06:38 PM   #86
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All of this is pretty interesting, even though it has to do with stuck cases and case lube - with stuck cases being a problem I've never had in 30 years. I just use that RCBS lube and I don't use much of it. I remember that a couple of times I had a case that was going into the die a bit harder than what I considered normal. I'd just withdraw it and relube. Why force it? And even though I'm a Chemical Engineer, I've never had the urge to be cutting edge creative and try STP or Mobil 1 or WD40 or Orange Jello or anything else that might be a teensy bit cheaper. The RCBS stuff only costs about $3 and a small bottle lasts a long time. But...I don't load 1000 rounds at a sitting, so maybe if I did, I'd want something faster, like the spray stuff. On the other hand, a stuck case isn't faster.
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Old July 4, 2011, 09:23 AM   #87
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Stuck cases

A friend of mine uses MUTTEN TALLOW to get his cases stuck.
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Old July 4, 2011, 03:52 PM   #88
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Too many posts and I just don't have the time to read them all.
Just two points.
1. I stuck at least one case with just about every type of lube you can think of and maybe some you haven't. After all, I've been reloading sine 1954. Stuff happens.

2. Imperial is sold by Redding. RCBS has their own formula. What makes anyone think they'll say something nice about a competitor's product? Probably 90 percent of all my reloading stuff is RCBS and I like their products. But since I started using the Imperial, I've definitely has less stuck cases than with any other lube I've tried.
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Old February 19, 2013, 05:12 AM   #89
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I am blown away about the advice of the Imperial building up on the die....
I have seen such glowing reviews of it.

Lee added that clean cases are much more likely to stick than dirty cases because gun powder acts as a lube.


I wonder if boiling the die in hot water or using a solvent to clean it out every now and then would work in a pinch if all that you have is Imperial?

Thanks
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Old February 19, 2013, 06:55 AM   #90
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I started using MILSPEC grease about five years ago for case lubing and apply it very lightly like Imperial. Like with other stuff if you get dimpled cases while sizing back off you lube as you have too much appllied.

Grease Auto and Artillery GAA

Grease Aircraft Wide Temperature Range WTR

I have found the above on ebay, flea markets and surplus stores. It is dated and the gov't dumps it after like five years but I have used it 30 years old and it is fine.

Both can be had surplus. It is synthetic and good to well below zero and high temp as well.

Those that know folks who are Aircraft mechanics can use Aeroshell 33 which is WTR (above).

I decap with Lee Universal decapper and then FL size with no expander in die lubed with one of the above.

I tumble clean with the stainless steel pins in Thumlers Tumbler which not only removes the carbon from primer pocket and inside case but removes the lube at same time.

I expand necks as needed. For instance rapid fire ammo in bolt guns is expanded at a less rate than LR ammo. For ARs I don't expand at all and let the bullet do it when seating and don't crimp at all.
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Old February 19, 2013, 08:41 AM   #91
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why do the new bottles of RCBS case lube say TOXIC on them ? Have they changed the formula or was it always toxic and just now they have to say it ?
what is in it that makes it toxic ?
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Old February 19, 2013, 08:48 AM   #92
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Didn't see a need to read the whole thread. Most of my dies are RCBS & I have used Imperial Sizing Wax for over 40 yrs. Had one stuck case back when I started.

While I have a great deal of respect for RCBS customer service, I am going to guess that the person that the OP spoke with has a degree in Marketing
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Old February 19, 2013, 09:01 AM   #93
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There's seems to be little reason to resurrect this 7 year old thread that's be inactive for almost 2...

Besides which, the issue was clarified/resolved by an RCBS Rep at the bottom of page 2, even though her comments were almost completely ignored:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanne Riley
Hi everyone, The person answering the email neglected to mention that they were referring to Spray lubes that have a wax base. We're not sure if the customer is using too much, too little, too soon or too late but it's hard for us to remove the case it's so stuck. Some of our customers have told us that they've used the lube in the past with no problem and then they get a stuck case. When our warranty department takes out the case, they can tell right away that it was a wax based spray lube, it's that apparent. Sorry if this caused a lot of confusion. We never mean to misinform but sometimes we get going too fast and that's never good. Have a great day! Jeanne, RCBS Customer Service.
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