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Old February 16, 2013, 12:19 AM   #51
nate45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim_Reaper
So, you gave it to your self!
No, you earn the title Grand Master by performance, not because you say you are one.

SKILL LEVELS
IPSC shooter skill classes, from lowest to highest, are: D, C, B, A, Master, Grandmaster

Skill is determined by shooting at least four of eight predesigned stages and submitting your scores to USPSA. You
may move up in rank by winning matches, or as determined by USPSA in comparison to other shooters in your rank.

http://www.rrmemphis.com/op015.html

Its like being a black belt in martial arts, the other black belts tell you when you are a black belt.

I'm just a regular guy who happened to be a natural born killer and who practiced for 30+ years. Ever since I was little I wanted to be a LEO, soldier, mafia enforcer, samurai, etc. So like the old joke, "How do you get to Carnigie Hall?" " "Practice, practice, practice".

This is the internets though, if you don't think I can really draw a 1911 and shoot 7-9 times on target in +/- 2 seconds, thats your business. I don't care either, these threads aren't about individuals per se, they are about ideas and input from multiple sources. With the goal being the edification of all.

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Old February 16, 2013, 02:40 AM   #52
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I ran across the video below on youtube a few minutes ago.

Bob Vogel: The Mozambique Drill

.93 seconds

Taran Butler in .63 Seconds!!!!!

Three shots from low ready.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I don't see what's so amazing about the times I said I was getting with the Model 58. I use full power loads in my revolvers and semi-autos, so that slows me down a little. Plus my holsters are all practical carry. If I use a special ISPC/IDPA rig and minimum allowed power ammo, my times go down. Anyone familiar with IDPA/ISPC shooting should know how fast some people are.

Also, why is it considered bragging, etc just merely relating facts? First this is pseudonymous with screen names, so I'm not glorifying myself. Second, the people who do know me IRL know its true. So, I don't see why talking about me is wrong, when its all true.

At the very least, the times I'm posting are slower than what guys like Taran Butler, Blake Miguez, Todd Jarret, Rob Latham, etc are shooting. So even if I am lying about my prowess, its still with in the bounds of reality. If you the reader, whomever you may be, are way, way slower, but have never competed and previously thought you were a good quick pistolero...well guess what, you aren't.
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Old February 16, 2013, 04:59 AM   #53
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Quote:
If you the reader, whomever you may be, are way, way slower, but have never competed and previously thought you were a good quick pistolero...well guess what, you aren't.
Hey now don't hate on us slow folks......

I have really enjoyed the talk here especially about the 41. I have had one in my stable for quite some time and shoot mostly near top end loads. I don't know what I would do in a SD situation as far as time goes, but if pressed into it, I don't think I would miss my target.

I had a friend who used the 41 on patrol when they came out. One of you might have even known him by his handle "Gowge". He was a great fellow with a ton of knowledge not only with firearms but life in general. He filled me in on plenty of his experiences with his while on duty, as well as that of others he knew. For those who could handle the full end loads it was a formidable proposition.

Anyway, speaking of the Win ST's I never really got much of a fuzzy feeling for them. They simply didn't deliver what I thought they should have. In several instances they simple failed to expand at all. On the other hand the 170gr Remington SJHP worked and worked well every time. I never recovered any of them that weren't rolled back nearly to the base. That said I use my handguns for hunting. I practice plenty and I shoot to put meat on the table. My preferred quarry is feral hogs and the 41 fills the bill well. Put into action against a BG I don't think they would enjoy the resulting situation.

My most carried load has been the Rem 200gr SJHP, loaded over 20.5grs of 296, do to being able to keep a decent velocity of around 1300fps from my 7.5" Redhawk, with plenty of down range energy, but still mild enough for rapid controlled fire on target. Nothing in the realm of what you folks are talking but good enough for fast moving hogs in the brush.

I'll go away now and let you speedsters continue on. You have my admiration for your dedication and practice. I wished I could get out more and work back up to where I used to be, life has a way of getting in the way of things ou like to do. I'm working on it though as well as bringing the wife along with me.

Take care
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Old February 16, 2013, 06:24 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike/Tx
Hey now don't hate on us slow folks
No hate here, in fact the total noob with their first pistol and no experience, is who I care about most. The world is a strange place, its rare that the UFC fighter, or the pistol Grand Master gets attacked, just by virtue of their small demographics. Its usually the elderly man, the soccer mom, etc, etc that end up being the ones facing the IRL deadly encounter.

They don't have to become IDPA champions to impress me. Just caring enough to master the basics of marksmanship and safety would make them aces high in my book. Sadly, many people, even many LEOs don't take it seriously enough. One doesn't have to become a gun aficionado to develope proficiency, with a tool they may need to save their life.
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Old February 16, 2013, 12:55 PM   #55
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One of my friends and shooting buddies is a 5 gun IDPA master. I shoot the same group he does, just a lot slower.
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Old February 16, 2013, 01:59 PM   #56
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I already said it once in this thread and I really dislike clichés, however..."I've never seen a timer in a real gunfight."-paraphrasing Clint Smith

Thats not to say that speed isn't good, the quicker and smoother one can present their handgun in practice, the better.
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Old February 16, 2013, 02:24 PM   #57
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Quote:
I already said it once in this thread and I really dislike clichés, however..."I've never seen a timer in a real gunfight."-paraphrasing Clint Smith
There is a timer at every gunfight. It's an hourglass, and Death is holding it.

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Old February 16, 2013, 08:50 PM   #58
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Nate,

I noticed in the three videos you posted, there is almost no visible recoil. Do you run special loads in the matches?

Steve
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Old February 16, 2013, 09:41 PM   #59
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They are using ammo that meets the Power Factor rules. The power factor of a firearm is calculated using the formula of Bullet Weight (grains) times Velocity (feet/second) divided by 1000.

A lot of what is causing the recoil to look light, is the strong grip they are using.

For example I backed down from 22 grains of H-110 to 21 grains of H-110 for use with the 210 grain Gold Dot bullet in my Model 58. I also made a conscious effort to utilize a strong grip. It made a big difference. Of course that is a much more powerful load than is used in competition, but still the strong grip matters very much in taming recoil.
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Old February 16, 2013, 10:51 PM   #60
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Whoa guys...A question.

What is the Mozambique Drill for?

Do any of you know WHY it was invented?

You see the whole concept of the drill is to simulate shooting someone twice in the chest and then, after it fails to stop the attacker, a decision is made to shoot for the head.

That means it is no SPEED DRILL. You shoot twice, pause slightly to see if the desired effect has been reached, and if not shift target for the head.

IT IS A FAILURE TO STOP DRILL.

So don't use some IPSC/IDPA/Steel Challenge super shot define what is needed to complete a Mozambique, ok?

Deaf
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Old February 17, 2013, 04:44 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate45
I'm just a regular guy who happened to be a natural born killer and who practiced for 30+ years. Ever since I was little I wanted to be a LEO, soldier, mafia enforcer, samurai, etc.
So which direction did you end up going?
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Old February 17, 2013, 05:24 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaf Smith
IT IS A FAILURE TO STOP DRILL.
Thats very true Deaf. When one does a 1.4 second Mozambique IRL, I don't see how you could tell if the first two COM shots worked and if they were failing to stop or not.
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Old February 17, 2013, 05:30 AM   #63
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Quote:
So which direction did you end up going?
On the side of the angels.
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Old February 17, 2013, 05:41 AM   #64
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Do us a favor, Nate. Please don't hurt any innocents.
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Old February 17, 2013, 05:50 AM   #65
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People always say that, "Don't hurt me, I didn't do anything, I'm innocent, I have a wife and kids, etc, etc on and on..."

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Old February 17, 2013, 06:04 AM   #66
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I didn't say that. I said please don't hurt any innocents.
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Old February 17, 2013, 06:33 AM   #67
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Define innocents? Innocent bystanders? Haven't ever even nicked one yet, but a couple have gotten minor bruises and abrasions from automobile crashes. I've avoided a lot of collateral damage over the years though and gone out of my way to be nice and help everyone.

When my cousin nate.22, who works for the Outfit, CIA, Mossad, et al shows up late at night, thats the the time to worry.


He has had that Beretta Model 71 .22 LR since 1985 and has fired untold thousands of rounds through it. Low, noise, low recoil, ample penetration, has NEVER malfunctioned in all these years.


Talk about fast, accurate and low recoil. Eight shots in the head A-zone from 5 yards in less than 2 seconds is the norm. Sure, not all shots always hit the A-zone, but I don't think it would matter much.


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Old February 17, 2013, 07:02 AM   #68
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Is that enough? Or no? I can never tell with these things...
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Old February 17, 2013, 07:14 AM   #69
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Is what enough? Enough shots to incapacitate someone? One .22 LR to the brain usually does it, despite what some armchair wound ballistics experts claim. Its like turning off a switch when it hits, all movement stops.

Ask people who used to slaughter hogs, beefs, etc one .22 LR to the forehead was all it took. Back in the day when farm families would get together to have hog killings on each others farms, my Dad did all the shooting he never made one squeal even. They all hit the dirt dead as wedges, from a .22 to the brain.

Of course he was using a .22 rifle, but at two or three yards, the Mini-Mag Copper plated 40 grain roundnose .22 LRs I use in my Model 71 penetrate well.
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Old February 17, 2013, 07:32 AM   #70
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Excellent video on Speed and Recoil

Rob Leatham is faster, more accurate and has had way more practice than I have. He's beyond Grand Master and one of the all time greats. The video below is excellent advice and a good demonstration of what I've been talking about.

Rob Leatham-Training with Action Target Torso

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Old February 18, 2013, 03:40 PM   #71
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Is this the nate show? lol

Now when my nephew Josh m60 comes around, best watch yerself. Marine, numerous confirmed kills, and soon to be a teacher......
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Old February 18, 2013, 06:16 PM   #72
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Thats why I posted the Rob Leatham video, just to keep things real. He shoots way faster and more accurately in the above video than I have ever claimed to on this site.

Its not all about speed and accuracy, but those are very important things. As law abiding citizens, when the trouble goes down, we're already going to be behind the curve.

Getting our concealed weapons out as quickly as possible and getting a shot or two off, might be very important. Or, it might not. Its very possible that in a violent happening the best shooter in the world could be there and not have time to react.

I remember us discussing the Gabriel Giffords shooting, it was all over before most people realized what was going on. Its doubtful that Rob Leatham, or someone else of his caliber could have even got their weapons out.

All thats not to say that practicing speedy presentations isn't important, because if and when the bad thing happens speed and accuracy might save our lives. I say might, because none knows what its going to really look like, until it actually occurs.

Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
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Old February 18, 2013, 07:18 PM   #73
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You guys need to talk to Paul Howe. He finds people like Rob good for learning a specific shooting technique but NOT combat shooting.

You are espousing game techniques and do not self defense

http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/ar-styl...ith-paul-howe/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFXdIDpEac

Now Rob is a good guy just as Brian Enos and others but game techniques are not the same as combat techniques and one as better learn the difference (and BTW Rob knows that and does not push his techniques as combat techniques.)

The Mozambique, as I have said, is a failure to stop drill and you have to LOOK to see if the two you fired failed to achieve what was needed.

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Old February 18, 2013, 08:01 PM   #74
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Very true, which is why all my holsters, ammo and pistols are practical combat ones. I sort of got off on a tangent, when it seemed some were questioning the times I posted.
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Old February 19, 2013, 05:17 AM   #75
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Good grief.

This thread has been all over the map, barely on topic to begin with and definitely off topic now. I deleted a few.

Take it outside, guys.

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