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Old February 10, 2013, 02:41 PM   #51
Doc Intrepid
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I would offer the following argument to gun banners, which - as JohnKSA noted - they would find unpursuasive if their minds are already decided.

If they are thoughtful, however, they may consider the matter more deeply:

The best answer to the question: "Why does any citizen need an AR-type rifle with 30 round magazines?" was actually provided by Abraham Lincoln who said: "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it" (Abraham Lincoln, April 4, 1861).

100 years later Lincoln's statement was echoed by Democratic Senator Hubert Humphrey, who clarified: "...the right of the citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible" (Humphrey, 1960).

The Second Amendment exists because an armed citizenry is our last, best hope of ensuring, again in Lincoln's words: "...that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth".

That is why responsible citizens should own AR-type rifles and 30 round magazines. No one needs more than 10 rounds to hunt deer. But one needs more than ten rounds to overthrow a government.



This is the 800 lb gorilla sitting in the living room being marginalized by many on both sides of the issue.
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Old February 11, 2013, 11:49 AM   #52
pat701
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When you live rural. Police response is 45 minutes away. And savages are in your home.
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Old February 12, 2013, 12:32 AM   #53
Brit
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The reason I give to non gun people why I carry a Glock 19 with a loaded capacity of 16 rounds, is simple. I carry Insurance on our Jeep, not to get into an accident, but just in case, the Pistol carry is the same.

If never needed, it ain't so heavy, does not hurt, in fact I do not even feel it.

Many weapon deployment in the word of self defense, requires more than 5 rounds, and for that reason you will not find a Chief Special in my pocket.

The spare 17 round magazine, that's just for balance.
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Old February 12, 2013, 09:46 AM   #54
Rifleman1776
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As soon as we start trying to answer why we "need" more than ten rounds we have lost the battle.
Nobody "needs" most of the stuff we own. As Americans, we have a right to purchase and own whatever we can afford.
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Old February 12, 2013, 09:51 AM   #55
mtrvl
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I agree with your reasoning.I just hope you e-mailed your thoughts on this to your state representatives, as they are getting ready to vote on Bill S.150 assault weapons ban. Support the N.R.A. and the N.G.R.A.
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Old February 12, 2013, 02:30 PM   #56
GregA
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Whenever I hear people or politico's say 30 round magazine is not necessary, I think about a guy like Reginald Denny during the LA riots. He could of used one or two in my opinion.
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Old February 12, 2013, 03:04 PM   #57
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Quote:
Whenever I hear people or politico's say 30 round magazine is not necessary, I think about a guy like Reginald Denny during the LA riots. He could of used one or two in my opinion.
Reginald Denny isn't the best example on this point. First, it injects a racial component into the discussion that isn't helpful.

But mainly, it's not really on-point, because Denny wasn't a case of running out of ammo. Denny didn't even have a gun at all.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:04 AM   #58
JohnKSa
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Quote:
As soon as we start trying to answer why we "need" more than ten rounds we have lost the battle.
Nobody "needs" most of the stuff we own. As Americans, we have a right to purchase and own whatever we can afford.
That plays well when you're preaching to the choir.

If you're trying to sway a fence-sitter, you may have better luck if you start by proving it is possible to demonstrate a need and then work around to the real crux of the matter.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:39 AM   #59
doofus47
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LRchops
Quote:
IT IS SIMPLE, we need high cap mags and ammo because we are subject to the same dangers as cops and the military.
I actually think the reverse of this. Bear with me here. I hear people often say "well, that sort of magazine capacity should only be held by police or military." I argue that the police could get away with 10 round magazines while I can't. My arguments, in no particular order:

1. Criminals avoid the police.
For me: Criminals look for victims among the civilian population. I'm a civilian and I don't look physically imposing at all.

2. The police usually choose condition of the engagement. Patrol cars choose the time/place of their traffic stops. Or they receive a radio call and they know that they are going to dangerous situation such as a robbery in progress. They already know if other police are responding to that same call and how far away they might be. They prefer to outnumber the bad guys and they can wait for help to arrive. They can call for backup before proceeding in many circumstances if they don't feel comfortable.
For me: if I've met a criminal, things have already gone completely wrong. I don't do any criminal type activities and if I meet a criminal or a band of bad guys, they have probably the initiative since they have picked the time/place of our encounter. I'm a step behind and probably outnumbered.

3. Police have radio and active backup already mobilized. If the patrol officer feels endangered, a call for backup will bring all available help immediately.
For me: i may or may not have time to call 911. I might be immobilized. I might have to make an immediate decision to put my life in danger against superior numbers to save a family member.

So, for me, a normal capacity magazine (usually more than 10) just makes sense for citizens who are quite probably in an inferior tactical position in a criminal encounter. For police officers, they might not need that additional magazine capacity as they have several levels of tactical advantage and support.

I'm not trying to downplay the dangerous nature of police work nor saying that I don't appreciate that they do a job that I can't (see the bit above about not physically imposing). Nor am I saying that police should be limited to 10 round magazines. I'm just stating how encounters between me (the average joe) and a criminal/s appear fundamentally different from a tactical perspective than for a police officer/s and a criminal/s.
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Old February 13, 2013, 06:48 AM   #60
2ndsojourn
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^^^ Hey, for a doofus, that's a pretty good argument. Well put. I like it.
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Old February 16, 2013, 10:45 PM   #61
Brit
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More people do not trust Obama, than do! That is a good enough reason to have weapons, period.

A Steyr AUG, plus two spare 30 round magazines, 90 rounds. On person.

And I have no tin foil helmet either! Thinking something might happen, or not, no problem, a rifle does not need feeding, just sits.
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Old February 17, 2013, 12:09 AM   #62
Bud Helms
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That's enough for this one.

Closed.
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