375 ruger? 116 savage?

jessedehaven04 · February 13, 2013, 05:09 PM

i had a question about the 375 ruger, after long debate i have decided to go with the 375 ruger over the 375 h&h mainly because the cost of the rifles and brass is a little more affordable, that and the lack of remington 798 out there now, ive been looking at the savage 116 alaskan brush hunter with the 20" barrel but my main concern is how accurate it will be with a short barrel, ive never owned a hunting rifle with such a short barrel, my question is the 116 accurate around the 300 yard range? im not looking for a target gun just to be able to get a kill shot on a moose at that distance if it is called for, any advice or tips would be appreciated,

kahrguy · February 13, 2013, 06:47 PM

Accuracy will not or should not be effected by a 20" barrel if any optics are used. Little shorter sight radius with open sights depend on your eyes and it is made for quicker close in work. You would be giveing up a little in velocity. You can buy the Afican model and get the 23" barrel if lenght is an issue and you feel longer shoots are the norm.

Ruger designed this with hornady so why not call ruger and talk to them about velocity difference between the 20" and 23" barrels . Probably no more than 100fps.
I don't think a bear at 50 yards or less would know the difference when a 300gr bullet hit it.

dgludwig · February 15, 2013, 06:46 PM

kahrguy is exactly right. A slightly shorter barrel will have no effect on the intrinsic accuracy of a rifle and negligible effect on fps. Get the rifle that handles the best in your hands and that fits your financial situation best and don't look back.

handlerer2 · February 15, 2013, 09:29 PM

All other factors being equal, a shorter barrel will be more accurate than a longer barrel. Ever notice that benchrest rifles almost all have 20" barrels.

A bicycle wheel is turning the same number of RPM at the axel, as at the wheel, but the distance traveled by the wheel is exponentially greater than the travel at the axel. The same principle applies to rifles also.

The result of ammunition discharges on barrels, are reaction to torque caused by rifling spinning lead projectiles. Twist causes twist, the longer the barrel, the more flex is possible.

Barrel length is a factor only in very long range target applications, IMO. Also in magnum riflery, where you need length to completely burn overbore loads.

Now days, with new mystical powders, Hornaday and Ruger, can claim to exceed factory 375H&H, with that 20" barrel. Good Ole American Voodoo!

reynolds357 · February 16, 2013, 12:26 AM

Jessee, I am a huge Savage fan, but I honestly think Howa has Savage beat on the .375 Ruger. I just bought one and love it. I like the .375 Ruger better than the H&H just because of the length of the Cartridge. I have a Mark V H&H and I like the Howa better than I like it due strictly to the action length. You can get the Howa as either a carbine or full length. What has been said about short length barrels and accuracy is not necessarily correct. A 6 PPC can burn its powder efficiently in a 20" barrel. A .375 Ruger is not going to efficiently burn its powder in a 20" barrel. A 20" barrel in a PPC is not an accurate comparison to a 20" barrel in a .375 Ruger.

taylorce1 · February 16, 2013, 11:29 AM

Here is the thing about the .375 Ruger when it was developed by Hornady and Ruger it was made to produce .375 H&H performance in a 20" barrel. So it will push a 270 grain bullet to 2800 fps out of a 20" barrel. So to say a .375 Ruger won't efficiently burn all the powder in a 20" barrel is a fallacy, but you have to choose the right powders if you reload the .375 Ruger.

When I built my .375 Ruger I went with a 24" barrel just because I was wanting a more traditional length barrel on my M70 Winchester, and the 4" longer barrel helps with noise. I can't imagine the noise from the Savage with it's 20" braked barrel. I had an Encore pistol with a 17" braked barrel and that thing caused a terrible flinch just from the blast I was receiving from the brake.

There are several options if you want to go with the H&H. I'd look for an old Interarms Mark X or Whitworth in .375 H&H these can usually be had for around $750 and get you a Mauser action. Winchester makes a nice SS laminate in the M70 Alaskan but will run you more than $1200 NIB. Then you can pick up a Browning, Sako, and the occasional Remington M700 as well.

The nice thing about the .375 Ruger is that you can rebarrel any standard length magnum action to use this cartridge. I took a 7mm RM M70 XTR and rebarreled it to the Ruger when the cartridge first came out just to try. I think it is a good cartridge but in the end I think I'd rather have the H&H just because I like the classic appeal of the cartridge and the history behind it. Plus there are far more options for brass out there than just the Hornady brass for the Ruger. Most times I can find new H&H brass cheaper than the Hornady brass.

reynolds357 · February 16, 2013, 11:51 AM

A .375 Ruger does not efficiently burn its powder in a 20" barrel. The velocity gap between a 20" barrel and a 24" barrel with Hornaday ammo designed for the 20" barrel is testament to that fact. Duplicating the velocity of the H&H which dates back to the days of Cordite and the pressures of a double rifle is no acomplishment for the Ruger. Soundly thumping the velocity of the H&H with the 24" barrel is a testament to the Ruger. Having said that, if you load the H&H up to the pressure potential of the Mark V action, it makes the Ruger look a bit pitiful. At that pressure, the H&H also kicks like a mule on steroids. If you use a fast enough powder, you can theoretically get the powder burned in a 10" barrel. However, that does not mean that the load is an efficient match between bore dia. and volumetric capacity of the case.

taylorce1 · February 16, 2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

A .375 Ruger does not efficiently burn its powder in a 20" barrel.

What exactly is the basis of your argument? Just because the 24" barrel produces more velocity doesn't mean that the powder isn't being burned efficiently in a shorter barrel. There are several cartridges that were designed for short barrels that still produce faster velocities than the shorter barrel that doesn't change the fact that they are efficient in a shorter barrel. The shorter and fatter powder column which is proven to provide more efficient ignition and burn regardless of barrel length, the same can't be said for the H&H.

Quote:

Soundly thumping the velocity of the H&H with the 24" barrel is a testament to the Ruger.

Like I said you have to pick your powders. The H&H will push a 260 grain Nosler Partition to 2754 fps with a 79 grain charger of IMR 4007 SSC, and the Ruger pushes the 260 grain Accubond to 2793 fps with a 78 grain charge of IMR 4007 SSC. H&H will push a 270 grain TSX to 2632 fps with 78 grains of H380 and the Ruger will do 2783 fps with a 270 grain Hornady and 83.5 grains of H4350. So I wouldn't call it a lot more efficient overall, these loads were taken from Hogdon's web page and both were fired from a 24" barrel. So I wouldn't go saying the Ruger soundly thumps the H&H out of a 24" barrel. In fact to soundly thump the H&H the Ruger is using on average 10% more of the same exact powder in most cases to do it. However, I wonder if someone was to do a comparison of 20" barrels would the results be as close?

The real problem with the H&H matching the velocities of the Ruger is the case design. The case capacities are similar 95 grains of water for the H&H and 99 grains of water for the Ruger. However the long taper of the case and shoulder angle leave the H&H prone to stretching and separation ahead of the belt on the case if pushed too hard. The minimal body taper and sharper shoulder allow the Ruger to be pushed harder without the case stretch of the H&H. Both the Ruger and the H&H have an average SAAMI maximum operating pressure of 62,000 PSI the old cordite powder argument really isn't a good one anymore.

February 13, 2013, 05:09 PM	#1
jessedehaven04 Junior Member Join Date: February 13, 2013 Posts: 7	375 ruger? 116 savage? i had a question about the 375 ruger, after long debate i have decided to go with the 375 ruger over the 375 h&h mainly because the cost of the rifles and brass is a little more affordable, that and the lack of remington 798 out there now, ive been looking at the savage 116 alaskan brush hunter with the 20" barrel but my main concern is how accurate it will be with a short barrel, ive never owned a hunting rifle with such a short barrel, my question is the 116 accurate around the 300 yard range? im not looking for a target gun just to be able to get a kill shot on a moose at that distance if it is called for, any advice or tips would be appreciated,

February 15, 2013, 06:46 PM	#3
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 4,449	kahrguy is exactly right. A slightly shorter barrel will have no effect on the intrinsic accuracy of a rifle and negligible effect on fps. Get the rifle that handles the best in your hands and that fits your financial situation best and don't look back. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

February 16, 2013, 11:29 AM	#6
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO & Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,697	Here is the thing about the .375 Ruger when it was developed by Hornady and Ruger it was made to produce .375 H&H performance in a 20" barrel. So it will push a 270 grain bullet to 2800 fps out of a 20" barrel. So to say a .375 Ruger won't efficiently burn all the powder in a 20" barrel is a fallacy, but you have to choose the right powders if you reload the .375 Ruger. When I built my .375 Ruger I went with a 24" barrel just because I was wanting a more traditional length barrel on my M70 Winchester, and the 4" longer barrel helps with noise. I can't imagine the noise from the Savage with it's 20" braked barrel. I had an Encore pistol with a 17" braked barrel and that thing caused a terrible flinch just from the blast I was receiving from the brake. There are several options if you want to go with the H&H. I'd look for an old Interarms Mark X or Whitworth in .375 H&H these can usually be had for around $750 and get you a Mauser action. Winchester makes a nice SS laminate in the M70 Alaskan but will run you more than $1200 NIB. Then you can pick up a Browning, Sako, and the occasional Remington M700 as well. The nice thing about the .375 Ruger is that you can rebarrel any standard length magnum action to use this cartridge. I took a 7mm RM M70 XTR and rebarreled it to the Ruger when the cartridge first came out just to try. I think it is a good cartridge but in the end I think I'd rather have the H&H just because I like the classic appeal of the cartridge and the history behind it. Plus there are far more options for brass out there than just the Hornady brass for the Ruger. Most times I can find new H&H brass cheaper than the Hornady brass. __________________ NRA Life Member The Truth About Guns

February 13, 2013, 06:47 PM	#2
kahrguy Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 354	Accuracy will not or should not be effected by a 20" barrel if any optics are used. Little shorter sight radius with open sights depend on your eyes and it is made for quicker close in work. You would be giveing up a little in velocity. You can buy the Afican model and get the 23" barrel if lenght is an issue and you feel longer shoots are the norm. Ruger designed this with hornady so why not call ruger and talk to them about velocity difference between the 20" and 23" barrels . Probably no more than 100fps. I don't think a bear at 50 yards or less would know the difference when a 300gr bullet hit it.

February 15, 2013, 09:29 PM	#4
handlerer2 Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2010 Location: Yellowstone Co, MT Posts: 191	All other factors being equal, a shorter barrel will be more accurate than a longer barrel. Ever notice that benchrest rifles almost all have 20" barrels. A bicycle wheel is turning the same number of RPM at the axel, as at the wheel, but the distance traveled by the wheel is exponentially greater than the travel at the axel. The same principle applies to rifles also. The result of ammunition discharges on barrels, are reaction to torque caused by rifling spinning lead projectiles. Twist causes twist, the longer the barrel, the more flex is possible. Barrel length is a factor only in very long range target applications, IMO. Also in magnum riflery, where you need length to completely burn overbore loads. Now days, with new mystical powders, Hornaday and Ruger, can claim to exceed factory 375H&H, with that 20" barrel. Good Ole American Voodoo!

February 16, 2013, 12:26 AM	#5
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 847	Jessee, I am a huge Savage fan, but I honestly think Howa has Savage beat on the .375 Ruger. I just bought one and love it. I like the .375 Ruger better than the H&H just because of the length of the Cartridge. I have a Mark V H&H and I like the Howa better than I like it due strictly to the action length. You can get the Howa as either a carbine or full length. What has been said about short length barrels and accuracy is not necessarily correct. A 6 PPC can burn its powder efficiently in a 20" barrel. A .375 Ruger is not going to efficiently burn its powder in a 20" barrel. A 20" barrel in a PPC is not an accurate comparison to a 20" barrel in a .375 Ruger.

February 16, 2013, 11:51 AM	#7
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 847	A .375 Ruger does not efficiently burn its powder in a 20" barrel. The velocity gap between a 20" barrel and a 24" barrel with Hornaday ammo designed for the 20" barrel is testament to that fact. Duplicating the velocity of the H&H which dates back to the days of Cordite and the pressures of a double rifle is no acomplishment for the Ruger. Soundly thumping the velocity of the H&H with the 24" barrel is a testament to the Ruger. Having said that, if you load the H&H up to the pressure potential of the Mark V action, it makes the Ruger look a bit pitiful. At that pressure, the H&H also kicks like a mule on steroids. If you use a fast enough powder, you can theoretically get the powder burned in a 10" barrel. However, that does not mean that the load is an efficient match between bore dia. and volumetric capacity of the case.