Zinc...and pennies?

chris in va · February 4, 2013, 11:05 PM

Canada just cancelled their penny.

At some point in the near future, lead is going to get scarce for casting. I've certainly seen a reduction in WW availability. The EPA has made it clear for years they want to ban lead in all forms.

The somewhat obvious answer is casting zinc bullets. Right now the .gov spends 2.4 cents per penny, which leads me to believe the cent might be a cost effective source of zinc, being 97% made of the metal.

Bottom line, would it be prudent to keep pennies for future use? Zinc is only going up in price.

smokin54 · February 4, 2013, 11:11 PM

Zinc is not a good choice for casting , hoard the lead

chris in va · February 4, 2013, 11:20 PM

I would, if there was any to hoard. A guy the next town over saw this coming a couple years ago and confiscated every wheelweight within a 20 mile radius from all the tire stores. Now the stores aren't allowed to sell the weights, the EPA has mandated they turn them in to a recycler.

stu925 · February 5, 2013, 12:02 AM

Call the recycler and see if they would sell you some scrap lead. They might be open to it but you'll end up paying more than scrap price for it. Worst case scenario you can buy it off e-bay but that might be a bit pricey.

Stu

sigshepardo · February 5, 2013, 03:14 AM

I don't want to live to see the day a government agency says we can't shoot lead out of our guns. Being a young man, intent on pursuing a career in firearms, seeing the United States head the direction we are in makes me doubt the security of my future. It scares the heck out of me folks. All I want to do is make guns and shoot them. Now it seems there are many people that want to take that away from me.

But to answer your question, I don't believe it's worth your time to save pennies. Not only would pure zinc bullets be a terrible product, but it would be a federal offense to melt down currency.

alex0535 · February 5, 2013, 03:40 AM

Thread reminds me of that time when we made zinc coated pennies in Chemistry class and then put them over the bunsen burner and turned them into brass pennies.

adamc · February 5, 2013, 08:49 AM

Alex...

To Deface / destroy US Tender is a federal crime

Quick.. Arrest all those trains, as they have killed pennies

**Unclenick** · February 5, 2013, 10:14 AM

I'll move this thread to the cast bullet forum.

adamc · February 5, 2013, 10:31 AM

Is there a "Bad Humor" section ? that seems more appropriate

jknight8907 · February 5, 2013, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamc

Alex...

To Deface / destroy US Tender is a federal crime

Quick.. Arrest all those trains, as they have killed pennies

False. http://www.coinflation.com/is_it_ill...elt_coins.html

Sent via teletype

**Brian Pfleuger** · February 5, 2013, 11:18 AM

Defacing/destroying US currency is only illegal if you have "fraudulent intent".

When I was a banker, I'd have people all the time walking up to the counter with 20s and say "Can you break that for me?"

For my more known, regulars, I'd say "Sure!", tear it in half and hand it back. The looks were priceless!

Once had a guy about 2 back in line flip out when he saw it.

he told me he just witnesses a felony and was calling the FBI.

Anyway, zinc makes bad bullets, legal or otherwise. Not to mention, you think 1c each penny is cheap... imagine how many pennies it would take to make a typical bullet. You'd be better off, by far I imagine, to buy regular, jacketed bullets.

JD0x0 · February 5, 2013, 02:42 PM

Why is the EPA so against lead? It seems like anyone inexperienced with lead thinks that you will be instantly poisoned. Even though it takes years and years and years of buildup to start showing effects. You can wear lead jewelry and use lead silverware for decades and be completely fine.

dickttx · February 5, 2013, 08:14 PM

For the same reason they are against toilets that flush, light bulbs that provide light, etc.

deerslayer303 · February 6, 2013, 12:47 PM

^^^^ Too FUNNY!!

That and our society is ate up with a bunch of DO GOODER RETARDS!!! Or at least they THINK they know whats good for everyone!

**Unclenick** · February 6, 2013, 01:31 PM

I should mention that, though zinc can be cast by itself with practice, its density is only about 60% that of most casting alloys, so a zinc bullet cast in a current mold for a 230 grain lead .452" round nose bullets will come out weighing a little under 140 grains. That means the sectional density will be 40% lower, too, which means the ballistic coefficient will be 40% lower, too. Same will apply to all bullets cast in molds not made for zinc. This may not seem like a big deal for 7 yard ranges with handguns, but for a lot of rifle bullets it means they won't stabilize in existing rifling twist and the powders normally used will be too slow for them.

David Bachelder · February 6, 2013, 04:49 PM

Go to a plumbing supply house and buy pure lead.

The sky is not falling.

chris in va · February 11, 2013, 05:31 AM

You can't use pure lead in handguns and modern rifles.

PawPaw · February 11, 2013, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris in va

You can't use pure lead in handguns

Sure you can, but it helps if you put a little tin in the mix to help the mold fill. Many of the bullets that the factories (Speer, Hornady, etc) sell are swaged lead and are very soft. Millions of those bullets are shot every year. I don't worry about alloying metal until I plan to drive the bullet over 1300 fps, which covers the bulk of my .38 special, 44 special, and .45 ACP loadings.

The most important part of shooting lead bullets in handguns and rifles is that the bullet fits the bore. In handguns especially, it's important that the bullet be soft enough to obdurate under pressure.

David Bachelder · February 11, 2013, 08:58 AM

"You can't use pure lead in handguns and modern rifles"

True, but you can use the pure lead to make a great alloy.

95:2.5:2.5
lead/Antimony/Tin

And there are many, many others. the tin and antimony are available at rotometals.

**Unclenick** · February 11, 2013, 01:48 PM

As PawPaw said, many pure and near pure lead bullets (swaged bullets usually have a percent or two of antimony anymore) get shot all the time. You just can't go for much pressure and velocity with them. There are several theories of optimum hardness of the bullet for the peak pressure of the load. For BHN 4.5 (pure lead) you generally want loads in black powder pressure ranges, and lower ones at that. But many light target loads qualify.

dornjmd · February 13, 2013, 12:41 AM

I came across this company while I was looking for some Zinc for another project. I'm not sure about pricing, however they have lead in stock and ready for sale.

http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm

chris in va · February 13, 2013, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Many of the bullets that the factories (Speer, Hornady, etc) sell are swaged lead and are very soft.

Those are swaged cores inside a jacket. The lead doesn't touch the rifling.

TXGunNut · February 13, 2013, 10:49 PM

Many popular handgun bullets are swaged pure lead, loaded and fired many thousands of HBWC's from my friends in Ruleville, MS.

**Unclenick** · February 14, 2013, 01:21 PM

Chris,

It's true that cores are swaged, but so are whole bullets. Take a look at the gray bullets on this Hornady list, or at the Corbin bullet swaging site, here.

TXGunnut,

They aren't all pure lead. Hornady or Speer used to claim theres had a couple of percent Antimony. Corbin sells pure lead wire, but he also has a calculator for figuring pressure for swaging different alloys up to about BHN 8-10.

chris in va · February 14, 2013, 11:17 PM

Would 45 acp have a low enough pressure to fire pure lead without problems? I couldn't imagine doing so in 9mm.

February 4, 2013, 11:05 PM	#1
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 11,718	Zinc...and pennies? Canada just cancelled their penny. At some point in the near future, lead is going to get scarce for casting. I've certainly seen a reduction in WW availability. The EPA has made it clear for years they want to ban lead in all forms. The somewhat obvious answer is casting zinc bullets. Right now the .gov spends 2.4 cents per penny, which leads me to believe the cent might be a cost effective source of zinc, being 97% made of the metal. Bottom line, would it be prudent to keep pennies for future use? Zinc is only going up in price.

February 5, 2013, 03:14 AM	#5
sigshepardo Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2011 Location: North Eastern Indiana Posts: 118	What have we become I don't want to live to see the day a government agency says we can't shoot lead out of our guns. Being a young man, intent on pursuing a career in firearms, seeing the United States head the direction we are in makes me doubt the security of my future. It scares the heck out of me folks. All I want to do is make guns and shoot them. Now it seems there are many people that want to take that away from me. But to answer your question, I don't believe it's worth your time to save pennies. Not only would pure zinc bullets be a terrible product, but it would be a federal offense to melt down currency. __________________ Love your country, question your government

February 5, 2013, 08:49 AM	#7
adamc Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2013 Location: Stalingrad Connecticut Posts: 211	Alex... To Deface / destroy US Tender is a federal crime Quick.. Arrest all those trains, as they have killed pennies __________________ ** NRA Life Member *** Connecticut was the Cradle of the Gun Industry, NOW it is just a Pine Box, Courtesy of our Governor "Chairman MAO Malloy"

February 5, 2013, 10:14 AM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,140	I'll move this thread to the cast bullet forum. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member

February 5, 2013, 10:31 AM	#9
adamc Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2013 Location: Stalingrad Connecticut Posts: 211	Is there a "Bad Humor" section ? that seems more appropriate __________________ ** NRA Life Member *** Connecticut was the Cradle of the Gun Industry, NOW it is just a Pine Box, Courtesy of our Governor "Chairman MAO Malloy"

February 4, 2013, 11:11 PM	#2
smokin54 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Posts: 183	Zinc is not a good choice for casting , hoard the lead

February 4, 2013, 11:20 PM	#3
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 11,718	I would, if there was any to hoard. A guy the next town over saw this coming a couple years ago and confiscated every wheelweight within a 20 mile radius from all the tire stores. Now the stores aren't allowed to sell the weights, the EPA has mandated they turn them in to a recycler.

February 5, 2013, 12:02 AM	#4
stu925 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2010 Location: New York Posts: 852	Call the recycler and see if they would sell you some scrap lead. They might be open to it but you'll end up paying more than scrap price for it. Worst case scenario you can buy it off e-bay but that might be a bit pricey. Stu

February 5, 2013, 03:40 AM	#6
alex0535 Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 609	Thread reminds me of that time when we made zinc coated pennies in Chemistry class and then put them over the bunsen burner and turned them into brass pennies.

February 5, 2013, 11:18 AM	#11
Brian Pfleuger Staff Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Central, Southern NY, USA Posts: 14,458	Defacing/destroying US currency is only illegal if you have "fraudulent intent". When I was a banker, I'd have people all the time walking up to the counter with 20s and say "Can you break that for me?" For my more known, regulars, I'd say "Sure!", tear it in half and hand it back. The looks were priceless! Once had a guy about 2 back in line flip out when he saw it. he told me he just witnesses a felony and was calling the FBI. Anyway, zinc makes bad bullets, legal or otherwise. Not to mention, you think 1c each penny is cheap... imagine how many pennies it would take to make a typical bullet. You'd be better off, by far I imagine, to buy regular, jacketed bullets.

February 5, 2013, 02:42 PM	#12
JD0x0 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Posts: 126	Why is the EPA so against lead? It seems like anyone inexperienced with lead thinks that you will be instantly poisoned. Even though it takes years and years and years of buildup to start showing effects. You can wear lead jewelry and use lead silverware for decades and be completely fine.

February 5, 2013, 08:14 PM	#13
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 419	For the same reason they are against toilets that flush, light bulbs that provide light, etc. __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

February 6, 2013, 12:47 PM	#14
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: McMinnville TN Posts: 1,116	^^^^ Too FUNNY!! That and our society is ate up with a bunch of DO GOODER RETARDS!!! Or at least they THINK they know whats good for everyone! __________________ "You're so drunk you cant hit nothin, In fact you're probably seeing double"...."I have TWO GUNS one for each of ya"

February 6, 2013, 01:31 PM	#15
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,140	I should mention that, though zinc can be cast by itself with practice, its density is only about 60% that of most casting alloys, so a zinc bullet cast in a current mold for a 230 grain lead .452" round nose bullets will come out weighing a little under 140 grains. That means the sectional density will be 40% lower, too, which means the ballistic coefficient will be 40% lower, too. Same will apply to all bullets cast in molds not made for zinc. This may not seem like a big deal for 7 yard ranges with handguns, but for a lot of rifle bullets it means they won't stabilize in existing rifling twist and the powders normally used will be too slow for them. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member

February 6, 2013, 04:49 PM	#16
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Lake Jackson Posts: 395	Go to a plumbing supply house and buy pure lead. The sky is not falling. __________________ David Bachelder Rookie reloader, but learning fast Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, .40, 38 S&W, .38 Special, .357, .45ACP, .45 Colt, .243 and 30-06

February 11, 2013, 05:31 AM	#17
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 11,718	You can't use pure lead in handguns and modern rifles.

February 11, 2013, 08:58 AM	#19
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Lake Jackson Posts: 395	"You can't use pure lead in handguns and modern rifles" True, but you can use the pure lead to make a great alloy. 95:2.5:2.5 lead/Antimony/Tin And there are many, many others. the tin and antimony are available at rotometals. __________________ David Bachelder Rookie reloader, but learning fast Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, .40, 38 S&W, .38 Special, .357, .45ACP, .45 Colt, .243 and 30-06

February 11, 2013, 01:48 PM	#20
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,140	As PawPaw said, many pure and near pure lead bullets (swaged bullets usually have a percent or two of antimony anymore) get shot all the time. You just can't go for much pressure and velocity with them. There are several theories of optimum hardness of the bullet for the peak pressure of the load. For BHN 4.5 (pure lead) you generally want loads in black powder pressure ranges, and lower ones at that. But many light target loads qualify. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member Last edited by Unclenick; February 11, 2013 at 01:53 PM.

February 13, 2013, 12:41 AM	#21
dornjmd Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2013 Posts: 12	I came across this company while I was looking for some Zinc for another project. I'm not sure about pricing, however they have lead in stock and ready for sale. http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm

February 13, 2013, 10:49 PM	#23
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,792	Many popular handgun bullets are swaged pure lead, loaded and fired many thousands of HBWC's from my friends in Ruleville, MS. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

February 14, 2013, 01:21 PM	#24
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,140	Chris, It's true that cores are swaged, but so are whole bullets. Take a look at the gray bullets on this Hornady list, or at the Corbin bullet swaging site, here. TXGunnut, They aren't all pure lead. Hornady or Speer used to claim theres had a couple of percent Antimony. Corbin sells pure lead wire, but he also has a calculator for figuring pressure for swaging different alloys up to about BHN 8-10. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member

February 14, 2013, 11:17 PM	#25
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 11,718	Would 45 acp have a low enough pressure to fire pure lead without problems? I couldn't imagine doing so in 9mm.