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Old February 9, 2013, 06:48 AM   #26
MLeake
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From what I read, his first victims were the daughter of the man he felt didn't adequately represent him at the police board which fired him, and the daughter's fiance.

So he has shown willingness to kill the loved ones of those he feels have wronged them, even if they were on his side.

His manifesto said he intends to kill the family members of those who have wronged him, and specifically the families of LAPD officers.

Given all that, I wouldn't say it's that the officers' lives are considered more important than ours are (though they may be), but that the officers are out there trying to protect their own families.

While that may not be politically correct, or even ideal, I can't say I blame them one bit. I also can't say that I wouldn't view it in much the same way.

As far as anti-terrorism training... he was a Navy Reserve junior officer, assigned to Bahrain for a year as an augmentee. That's Fifth Fleet Headquarters, and the Navy logistics hub for the Gulf. It's not exactly a combat zone. From what I could glean from the articles, my guess would be Dorner was a staff officer, and might have been a training officer (primarily administrative in function) for harbor patrol and/or EOD types, but that's just an educated guess.
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Old February 9, 2013, 10:13 AM   #27
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The assault on the truck seems like nothing better than a gang banger drive by shooting.
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Old February 9, 2013, 10:34 AM   #28
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So he has shown willingness to kill the loved ones of those he feels have wronged them, even if they were on his side.




What he has shown is that he's read Ho Chi Minh's playbook: He understands how to invoke terror.

You don't terrorize people by killing them. You terrorize people by striking out at what they care for, and you make them understand that they are powerless to protect what they care for. You kill their dog. You rape their wife. You kill their children. You not only terrorize the people you are directly targeting, but you terrorize those who are their associates, or those who self-associate with the target. It's worked for eons.. for the IRA, the Mafia, the Viet Cong, etc. It's working here. How do you think the LEO's who worked directly with him feel about their job as they are looking for him... knowing that their wives and children and homes are not being protected by their husbands and fathers... because they are elsewhere? Trust me... they are scared, and so are their families. That's called terror. You can effect any end if you are willing to use terror as a tool. Contemplate this: Imagine that he is able to track down and kill the daughters of ten of his former LAPD associates: The result would be that the other 1000 of his former LAPD associates would call it quits for looking for him, and go home to circle their own wagons around their own families. Getting your enemy to quit the fight in droves is more effective than killing your enemies one by one. Kill one and you kill one. Terrorize 10 and you take 1000 out of the fight. Hearts and Minds... classic assymetric warfare.

This is the classic guerilla warfare. He's dangerous because he's smart and he's studied history a little.


Contemplate this, which is fiction but is so well written that it stands as an example: It's the musings of Kurtz, played by Marlon Brando:



We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us, and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized, like I was shot, like I was shot with a diamond, a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men, trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love but they had the strength, the strength to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, then our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling without passion without judgment... without judgment. Because it's judgment that defeats us....




Think it's fiction?

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre...eria-violence/


The other effect of the classic use of terror is that the target of the terror will lash out and harm innocents who are mistaken to be the terrorist. This is a result of fear... over-reaction. This then turns the people against the target of the terror, further weakening them. How many Vietnamese villages did we seach, how many tons of rice did we burn, in Viet Nam... making people who might not have been VC sympathizers into our lifelong enemies?

How does this look for the police in CA?



"Police gave no warning as they mistakenly shoot woman, 71, delivering newspapers and then target another innocent bystander during California manhunt for 'killer' ex-cop"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml


How many life-long bitter enemies have the police in California made this week?
Do you think the loved ones of the people targeted blame the terrorist, or the police?


The reason the police are afraid is... because they are afraid. They ought to be.



Willie

.

Last edited by Willie Sutton; February 9, 2013 at 10:49 AM.
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Old February 9, 2013, 02:07 PM   #29
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Chief Beck; LAPD gun control, Dormer....

This tragic incident with Dormer(the US Navy Reserve veteran & ex-cop) reminds me of Chief Beck's remarks a few weeks ago about how; "we(the LAPD) must face all these guns!(guns that were purchased by law-abiding CA residents who are NO threat to the LAPD).

Chief Charlie Beck & his anti-gun/anti-2A pals now look foolish as they must track down a violent, unstable former LAPD officer.

The message here should be clear; STOP blaming law abiding citizens who own firearms legally for violent crimes & illegal guns!

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Old February 9, 2013, 03:52 PM   #30
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^^^^ And to add to that, now an untold number of people are facing the same threat as the LAPD.
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Old February 9, 2013, 05:15 PM   #31
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Well said, Willie Sutton!
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Old February 9, 2013, 06:43 PM   #32
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^^^^^ What he said.
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Old February 10, 2013, 02:26 AM   #33
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2ndsojourn you are exactly right. Why should citizens be any less armed than the police? All are facing the same threat.
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Old February 10, 2013, 03:05 AM   #34
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I dont think this guy is in the mountains. He knows how LE operates. They follow leads and trails left by their suspects. Give them no trail and what do they do? Nothing. Because they dont have a direction to go.
He burnt his truck. Why? Conceal evidence? Identity. He knows they know who he is. No reason to burn it.

This is just my opinion but I think he left them a bread crumb trail with a burnt truck that lead to where some of his family owns some land in the area, knowing they would follow it.

JMO but im guessing hes no place near that area. Wont be caught unless its by sheer accident and wont strike again until things cool down a little. LAPD cant stay in its shell forever. Eventually they will have to begin business as usual in the absence of another attack or lose whatever respect they have in LA. And be vulnerable.

I hope hes caught soon. But honestly I dont think he will be. My guess he is he finally loses patience and dies in a firefight with LAPD during an attack that he executed too soon. I dont think LAPDs worries will be over for a while.
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Old February 10, 2013, 09:05 AM   #35
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This assumes he hasn't simply maximized what chaos he could create, and gone off to someplace remote to commit suicide.
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Old February 10, 2013, 12:05 PM   #36
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I disagree on the truck being an intentional bread trail issue, at least not as a plan. I don't think he would have a plan for breaking an axle, though I don't doubt the truck was then used as a diversion of opportunity. Given that he left behind rifles, ammo, and cold weather gear, I don't think his goal was to intentionally leave it behind. That is just how it worked out at that location.

Quote:
I'm the first one to put a political slant on things but if you read his manifesto his singular motivation is perceived injustice by the LAPD/LEOs. His likes and dislikes are all over the map. Eclectic to say the least.
Upset people often come across like this. Plus he may be all over the map. He probably didn't make a nice outline and then succinctly write out the complaints. He probably put them in as they came to him.
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Old February 10, 2013, 12:27 PM   #37
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We really don't know what's up with the abandoned truck yet. Mleake might have it.

There will be real uproar if it comes out that Dorner was unjustly fired and his complaints are real. Also, the police incidents of opening fire on two trucks of innocent folks will be important in the next weeks.

The LA Mayor describing Dorner as a sick individual with mental problems is not the brightest thing to do. Why agitate him even more? Idiot.
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Old February 10, 2013, 01:13 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
The LA Mayor describing Dorner as a sick individual with mental problems is not the brightest thing to do. Why agitate him even more?
I doubt that the mayor is really concerned with Dorner's feelings. Were I the mayor, I wouldn't expect Dorner to come out of this alive. I would, however, be looking for reasons to get my constituents to view a couple of shot-up civilian cars as "acceptable collateral damage in a hunt for a madman."
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Old February 10, 2013, 01:22 PM   #39
pnac
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Just a couple of links to add more complexity to an already complex, and bazaar, situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9yDJ...ature=youtu.be

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/l...klahoma-church
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Old February 10, 2013, 04:55 PM   #40
Nasty
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Seems the good people there now need to fear not only Dorner but also the hundreds of "peace" officers randomly opening fire.
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Old February 10, 2013, 05:49 PM   #41
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I would not be worried about it coming out that Dorner was unjustly fired and his complaints justified.

Whatever his initial justification may have been, to begin whacking the children of cops and then cops nullifies whatever high ground he may have sought. Even if he WAS a victim of racism, unjustly fired, and his complaints all true, once he begins wasting people all of that no longer matters.

Just MHO. YMMV.
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Old February 10, 2013, 07:06 PM   #42
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Folk Hero?

The LAPD have many more people that have no love for them and I'm wondering will Mr. Dorner become a folk hero in the same way Eric Rudolph became a hero in the Blue Ridge?
My bet is Dorner is nowhere near the place that burnt out truck and camping gear was found.
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Old February 10, 2013, 08:59 PM   #43
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Anyone see the thing about Feinstein asking for EVERYONE (civilians and LE) to lay down their weapons, because if they do he will stop and turn himself in- "human nature" I believe was the term used.
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Old February 10, 2013, 08:59 PM   #44
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Police are not here to protect. They arrive later and investigate. Let us not forget that!
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Old February 10, 2013, 09:16 PM   #45
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Quote:
The LAPD have many more people that have no love for them and I'm wondering will Mr. Dorner become a folk hero in the same way Eric Rudolph became a hero in the Blue Ridge?
This didn't take long! Someone said the sticker won't work because license plate scanners don't read bumper stickers ... or license plate numbers, apparently.LOL

http://www.cafepress.com/mf/76350146...er?shop=calico
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Old February 11, 2013, 07:25 AM   #46
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I am not sure a bumper sticker identifying you as not being the bad guy is the same thing as being a folk hero.
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Old February 11, 2013, 10:58 AM   #47
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I just read a copy of his "manifesto" on a yahoo link. He may have been wronged but he rambles on like a meth head. And I agree that once he starts murdering children & cops it doesn't matter why.
And by the way, Feinstein is an idiot.
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Old February 11, 2013, 11:35 AM   #48
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The social context of this will be very complicated. That's my genius insight.

He will enjoy some 'fan' base - that's just the way some people will react.

Ain't the world - fun?
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Old February 11, 2013, 11:37 AM   #49
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I had one question about his manifesto, though. He claims that he was able to avoid a background check when purchasing his suppressor by using an NFA trust. But if I'm understanding the law correctly, he's either lying, or the company that sold him the suppressor broke the law.

I thought that setting up an NFA trust just did away with the requirement for a local LEO to sign off on your application, but you still had to go through the BATFE background check and months of waiting.

But Dorner is making it sound like he walked into the Vegas gun store ("Lock n' Load") with money and NFA trust paperwork and walked out with a suppressor.
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Old February 11, 2013, 11:53 AM   #50
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Quote:
Police are not here to protect.
Except when it comes to protecting their own. Currently the families of 50 LA cops have 24 hour police protection.

Quote:
Meanwhile, 50 Los Angeles police officers and their families were being watched and guarded against attack today by the ex-cop on a murderous campaign of revenge.
http://www.kesq.com/news/-1-Million-...z/-/index.html
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