The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 5, 2013, 09:45 PM   #1
troutcreek
Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Southern Washington on the Columbia River
Posts: 76
Hot Shot Nipples

I was reading through past messages on the forum this evening. It is amazing the amount of great advice shared.
One of the items that caught my attention was a forum member stating that hot shot type nipples are the ones commonly used by the majority of shooters. Since the statement was uncontested I assumed that it is at least somewhat true.
After hundred of rounds over many years in differing conditions I’ve never found the need for this type of nipple and was always concerned about potential problems.
I don’t argue that these type of nipples provide a hotter spark to the powder, but that said I don’t have miss fire problems with standard nipples. If I keep the rifle clean and use standard practices to ensure the vent hole is clear normal caps are 100% reliable. If you don’t follow similar practices a specialized nipple won’t guarantee reliable ignition.
I should make it clear that my experience is based on the use of black powder, and I only have limited experience with the substitutes.
The other issue that I have that is really more important is that a standard nipple and hammer are designed to vent gases and particles of cap away from the shooters face. With a vented nipple gasses escape from the side of the nipple.
This seems like a potential problem.
In the spirt of increased understanding what is the general consensus on the forum? Do these vented nipples offer a true improvement?
Thanks and best regards to all,
troutcreek is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 10:41 PM   #2
mykeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,760
I have not found them to be an improvement, but then neither were they a problem. Like you, I've not really had a situation that required their use, so whatever advantage they provide I wasn't able to use.
mykeal is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 10:55 PM   #3
WCW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2007
Posts: 131
I tried a hot-shot nipple, and it worked just fine. I don't think it really made any difference as far as venting goes either. At least nothing I noticed.

Like you, I generally use only black powder, and never had a problem with the standard nipples. I have experimented a bit with loose pyrodex, and found it harder to ignite. When using pyrodex, I remember having a couple hangfires that were about like shooting a flintlock when using a standard nipple. That's why I originally tried a hot-shot, and I do think it helped ignite the pyrodex. That was a long time ago, and I've used black powder almost exclusively for the last fifteen years.

I think there may be some merit to using a hot-shot with harder to ignite substitutes, but I can't say I found any tangible benefit when using black powder.
WCW is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 05:34 AM   #4
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,753
I use Pyrodex with stock nipples with no ignition problems. I tried one of those but after ten years it was worn out so I never bought another one.
Hawg is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 09:25 AM   #5
Noz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2009
Posts: 643
I used a Hot Shot on my 50 cal back in the day with good success.

A variation of the Hot Shot is now being used by the CAS cap and ball shooters. Since it reduces the back pressure on the cap, it allows for a lighter main spring to be used.
Works quite well.
Noz is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 10:07 AM   #6
10851Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: High Desert Mountains CA.
Posts: 410
Slix Shot makes a great C&B nipple...FWIW
10851Man is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 10:17 AM   #7
Rifleman1776
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
I have been a muzzle loader for 45+ years and much prefer the hot shot style to coventional. The caps are easily removable with hs, not all brands of caps blow apart. Side splatter is not a problem, never even heard of the concern. They, in my experience, do provide a hotter and more reliable ignition.
I knew the designer and understand the principal behind the nipple, it came from, really, rocket science. And it works.
Rifleman1776 is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 10:23 AM   #8
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 5,637
There is a slight advantage !!

Well, I have conducted some "unscientific" test mostly on primers and just for the heck of it, did check a hotshot against a standard. The hotshots provided "slightly" improved ignition and force. The the spent primers did not see as much damage.

More later and;
Be Safe !!!
__________________
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.
Pahoo is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 11:32 AM   #9
troutcreek
Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Southern Washington on the Columbia River
Posts: 76
Good Stuff

Thanks for the responses, sounds like there are some supporters of the vented nipples. It is interesting (at least to me) that several people mentioned that removing the spent cap was easier.
The important points to me is that there seems to be qualitative evidence that the nipples provide a hotter spark and that side venting may not be a concern.
Since I have a new half dozen 1/4 x 28 nipples in my shooting box I doubt if I will use one in the near future.
troutcreek is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 04:44 PM   #10
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 5,637
Sometimes, onto the shooter's hands

Quote:
The other issue that I have that is really more important is that a standard nipple and hammer are designed to vent gases and particles of cap away from the shooters face.
True and keep in mind that the hammer cup, is directing the fire down into the snail. All the time, the outside spark is cooling. I get more cap fragments, from a standard nipple and it does burn, doesn't it?
As far as ignition I have not had a problem. Have you ever observed the spent primer stacking, inside the hammer cup? I never had that happen while using a HotShot nipple. .....

Be Safe !!!
__________________
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.
Pahoo is offline  
Old February 8, 2013, 10:20 AM   #11
mykeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,760
Quote:
there seems to be qualitative evidence that the nipples provide a hotter spark
I guess I missed that. Where was it?
mykeal is offline  
Old February 8, 2013, 11:14 AM   #12
troutcreek
Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Southern Washington on the Columbia River
Posts: 76
Mykeal-My intent with the statement was that there does not seem to be evidence of a problem with the hot shot nipples. People are not complaining about bits of cap bouncing off their nose. I apologize for my creative use of the english language.
Best to you...
troutcreek is offline  
Old February 8, 2013, 11:26 AM   #13
troutcreek
Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2012
Location: Southern Washington on the Columbia River
Posts: 76
Pahoo- I have seen spent caps in the hammer cup but it was due to using the improper size cap.
Quality caps with the properly sized nipple will not (IMHO) have a problem with caps stacked in the hammer.
Again, in my opinion a nipple (both hot shot and normal) have a life span. When they are new and if well made they work well. As time goes by they start to erode due to the force of the cap spark and vent back from ignition. When a nipple starts to wear it allows more and more vent gas to escape through the nipple hole.
In time this causes all sorts of problems. I have seen cases where the problem was so bad that the hammer would go to half cock after each shot. This amount of erosion would cause a significant safety issue with any type of nipple.
troutcreek is offline  
Old February 8, 2013, 12:21 PM   #14
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 5,637
Interesting !!

I have never seen this cup stacking or sever damage to the cap, with the use of the HotShots. Perhaps it's because they treat the effect and not the cause but at any rate, they do work better !! ...

Quote:
In time this causes all sorts of problems. I have seen cases where the problem was so bad that the hammer would go to half cock after each shot. This amount of erosion would cause a significant safety issue with any type of nipple.
I have never seen this but will certainly be watchful and thanks...

Be Safe !!!
__________________
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.
Pahoo is offline  
Old February 8, 2013, 02:22 PM   #15
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Posts: 2,093
I've used Knight Hot Shot nipples going back more years than I can remember. Never have I had a misfire w/knight installed. But than again. I can say the same for those few mixed bag of Standard nipples I've tried also. A salesperson at G/Mtn as I recall said Knight H/Shots were better than all the rest marketed. To this day I have yet to doubt that salespersons bold claim. Spare nipples. Boy do I have em. Over the years I've squirreld away so many K/H/S/Nipples. I have no recourse but!!~ too use them.

S/S
__________________
Heartland of gun country. Fishing too.
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old February 8, 2013, 06:07 PM   #16
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,753
Quote:
I have seen cases where the problem was so bad that the hammer would go to half cock after each shot. This amount of erosion would cause a significant safety issue with any type of nipple
Had it happen on my old Investarms Hawken.
Hawg is offline  
Old February 10, 2013, 11:42 AM   #17
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 5,637
HotShot nipples = performance

Quote:
In the spirit of increased understanding what is the general consensus on the forum? Do these vented nipples offer a true improvement?
I had forgotten why I switched to them in the first place. I only measured the "observed" performance. So went back for a stated description. As I replied before, less damage to the spend primers. ...

Here is how TC describes them;

Quote:
This heat treated stainless steel nipple will provide a more even and consistent flow of pressurized gases from the nipple into the ignition chamber. It will virtually eliminate hammer blow back by venting excessive gases through the side ports. (Not recommended for under-hammer rifles or cap & ball Revolvers).
Be Safe !!!
__________________
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.
Pahoo is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09619 seconds with 9 queries