The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 3, 2013, 09:34 PM   #1
MB21
Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2012
Posts: 64
Pistol like the CZ 82 or Makarov?

Hey everyone, I am looking for a decent, possibly mil-surp pistol such as the CZ 82 or Makarov. I really like those two pistols but 9x18 Makarov is hard to come by in my town or online at the moment (for a decent price). Do you guys know of one that is like those two, or is one of them in 9mm Luger?

Edit: 9mm Luger is available in my town, so ammo for that isn't a worry.

Last edited by MB21; February 3, 2013 at 11:43 PM.
MB21 is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 09:49 PM   #2
deerslayer303
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2011
Location: Leesville SC
Posts: 1,119
I would say get the CZ82 anyway. The won't be out there for long, the supply will eventually dry up. That pistol is AWESOME in every sense of the word. The ammo will be available before long. Or you could go with something like the CZ50 that shoots common 32ACP
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...=700|1012|1027
__________________
"You're so drunk you cant hit nothin, In fact you're probably seeing double"...."I have TWO GUNS one for each of ya"
deerslayer303 is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 10:04 PM   #3
MB21
Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2012
Posts: 64
I really really like the CZ 82, but the lack of availability of the round might be the breaking point. I LOVE the price, have read nothing but good reviews, and would love to pick one up. There are no pistols like that (NO HI-POINT) at all?
MB21 is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 10:13 PM   #4
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 4,206
The lack of availability of the round? Do you find ANYTHING available, right now?

If SIZE (smaller) and PRICE (relatively cheap) are your concerns, look for EITHER a good Makarov (German or Bulgarian), or a CZ-82.

The only other things close are the Kel-Tec PF-9, P-11, the Ruger LC9, or the Kahr CW9 or CM9. They're all 9x19, and that's hard to find, too.
Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 10:19 PM   #5
Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2000
Posts: 3,583
There is no ammo that is available right now unless you reload and have components. It will become available again and 9x18 will be reasonably priced. You can also reload for it using cut down 9MM Luger brass, and properly sized bullets which are also readily available.

Get the CZ-82 or Makarov. They are around, you just need to look and find a local FFL to do a transfer for a gun you find on the internet and have it shipped to him. It is easy to do, just make sure your FFL will do the transfer for a reasonable fee, usually anywhere from $25 - $35.
__________________
Pilot
Pilot is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 10:26 PM   #6
lee n. field
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2002
Location: The same state as Mordor.
Posts: 2,987
Quote:
Hey everyone, I am looking for a decent, possibly mil-surp pistol such as the CZ 82 or Makarov. I really like those two pistols but 9x18 Makarov is hard to come by in my town or online at the moment (for a decent price). Do you guys know of one that is like those two, or is one of them in 9mm Luger?
If what you're looking for is a compact sized, blowback autoloader, the closest I can think of that's reasonably available would be the Bersa Thunder .380s.
__________________
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "
lee n. field is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 11:45 PM   #7
MB21
Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2012
Posts: 64
Walt and Pilot - 9x19 is available in the town I live in, so that isn't an issue. So there are no 9x19 pistols (other than Hi-point) for the price of a CZ82?

I would rather have the 9x19 because it is more powerful than the 17 or 18 as well. .380 doesn't interest me in the least.

Personally I like the .45 the best, but concealed carrying my full size 1911 doesn't appeal to me as much as a smaller auto.
MB21 is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 06:51 AM   #8
Pico
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2002
Location: Ga
Posts: 435
The Bersa

I really like the feel of the CZ 82 or 83 but I would consider a Bersa in .380. If you want 9 mm there are many to choose from. I like the Ruger LC9 or SR9c, both shoot and carry well. The SR9c shoots better, the LC9 carries better.

Pico
Pico is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 07:31 AM   #9
Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2000
Posts: 3,583
You can buy 9x18 on line at very reasonable prices. Well you could before the recent gun and ammo madness. I suspect you'll be able find it again when things settle down.

As Walt and Pico said, there are small 9MM's like the Ruger SR9c, Keltec, S&W Shield,etc. Kahr makes a good line of compact 9MM's also, but these are DAO, not DA/SA like the CZ or Mak. You may want to consider Taurus as well for a small 9MM. Yes, they have a spotty reputation, but seem to have improved lately. Sig has also released a small 9MM in the P938, but they are very pricey, and then there is the Walther PPS which is also DAO like mos tof the compacts these days, and also northt of $500.
__________________
Pilot
Pilot is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 07:49 AM   #10
qwiksdraw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2012
Posts: 311
The Makarov is an awesome handgun. The commies got this one right. Built tough, easy to shoot, accurate and reliable.

Grabagun has the Bulgy in stock now for a decent price:

http://grabagun.com/century-internat...ed-2-mags.html

Last edited by qwiksdraw; February 5, 2013 at 08:12 AM.
qwiksdraw is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 08:47 AM   #11
jonnyc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 779
If you're worried, get a CZ83 in .380.
__________________
2013 PA Cartridge Collector Show!!!
Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance
Details: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513625
jonnyc is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 08:55 AM   #12
Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2000
Posts: 3,583
I forgot the Berettas, and CZ's. The PX4 Storm Compact or Sub Compact may work as well as the CZ RAMI 9MM (alloy framed).

http://www.berettausa.com/shop-by-de...arms/handguns/

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-2075-rami/

Again, these pistols will cost you more than surplus CZ-82's and Makarovs.
__________________
Pilot
Pilot is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 09:58 AM   #13
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 4,206
Quote:
So there are no 9x19 pistols (other than Hi-point) for the price of a CZ82?
For the price you pay for a CZ-82 or Makarov (around $200 or bit more) you can sometimes find a few used 9mm Kel-Tecs, a used Ruger LC9 (or bigger Ruger), a used Bersa 9 or .380, a variety of used revolvers (in .38 special) , and any number of used .380 guns. You can sometimes find guns new in box, with warranties, for just a bit more, too. There are also a couple of 9mm Kel-Tec Clones that seem to have good reputations in the way-under $300 price range.

While .380 is a bit less potent than 9x18, it's still a lot better than a pointed stick, and you don't mention that round.

There are a number of 9mm BHP clones available for around $300, too, along with any number of good quality guns from the former Communist Block in that price range.

And then there are lucky finds: I picked up a unfired Kahr CM9 recently for around $300, and a used Glock 35 for about $350 two years ago. I also picked up a NEW IN BOX Glock 38 for $350 locally last year. (I really like that gun. While it's .45 GAP, it's a soft-shooting .45, and I can generally find .45 GAP ammo in bulk for about the same price as .45 ACP.)

Put simply, you aren't looking hard enough and you're comparing Mil-Surp prices (for used CZ-82s and Makarovs) to the prices of other NEW guns. Try looking at "used gun" prices for a more realistic picture.

I've had a number of 9x18, .32 ACP, and .380, and just feel better with 9mm and larger calibers. My Kel-Tec PF9 or Kahr CM9 work better as concealed carry/pocket guns than either the CZ-82 or Makarov (I've had several of both), and they fire a more potent round than the CZ-82/Mak.

Paying $50-$100 more than your target $200 price for any of these guns wouldn't be a bad thing, and you might even find a new one with a warranty. More importantly, you'd quickly make up the higher purchase price in lower ammo costs.

Don't let the purchase price ALONE drive your decision.
Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 10:22 AM   #14
Pyzon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2009
Posts: 259
I acquired a few CZ 82's over the years, some for less than $200, and also have a gun or two worth 10 times that much, but nothing I have shoots as easy and smooth as those old Czech pistols.

Silver Bear in FMJ and HP is still easy to come by, and the more "obscure" calibers like 9X18 seem to be less subject to the ammo insanity like now and 4 years ago.

Yeah, the 82's are not always pretty, but gee they sure shoot nice. I do agree with Walt though they are heavy and large for CCW.
Pyzon is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 10:49 AM   #15
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,278
FWIW the S&W 69-series 9mm pistols are almost exactly the same size as a CZ 82, are only slightly heavier, but pack 12+1rds of 9mm Luger and are normally available for $275-$375 in decent condition. (Unfortunately, there is nothing normal about the current pistol market! )

The main functional difference from the CZ-82 is that most 69-series pistols have a slide-mounted decocker/safety rather than a frame-mounted "cocked and locked" non-decocking safety. They were also made in DAO form or with a SIG-style frame-mounted decocking lever, but these versions are uncommon.

The 2nd-generation models were the 469 (blue/nickel) and 669 (stainless); the 3rd-generation models, which had some design improvements, were the 6904 (blue), 6906 (stainless), 6926 (frame-decocker 6906), 6944 (DAO 6904), and 6946 (DAO 6906). [I start with the 2nd generation because there were no 1st-generation double-stack S&W compacts.]
Quote:
If you're worried, get a CZ83 in .380.
Another pistol that's very comparable to the CZ 83 is the Beretta 84. New ones run pretty expensive, but there are a number of inexpensive Israeli and European police surplus examples floating around. The recent 84F and 84FS models have decockers, but the earlier 84BB, 84B, and no-suffix 84 have non-decocking safeties.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 11:04 AM   #16
jasmith85
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 261
Before all of the recent insanity you could find Kel-Tec PF9's in my area for $210 plus tax. If things ever go back to normal you might be able to find one of them if you look around.
jasmith85 is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 12:26 PM   #17
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,436
Quote:
I really like those two pistols but 9x18 Makarov is hard to come by in my town or online at the moment (for a decent price).
I can still find 9x18mm Makarov ammo in stores locally.

On the other hand, 9x19mm Luger is IMPOSSIBLE to find.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 05:01 PM   #18
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 5,964
As jonnyc posted above, the CZ-83 is a "civilian" version of the CZ-82. It's exactly the same pistol, with a nicer finish and chambered in .380 ACP. They even use the same magazines.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 05:37 PM   #19
North Bender
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 142
My CZ-83 is in 9x18. You could also pick them up in .32 and .380, back in the day.

There are a few differences between the 82 and 83; most visually is the fact the 83 has a square trigger guard.
North Bender is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 06:44 PM   #20
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 4,206
Quote:
As jonnyc posted above, the CZ-83 is a "civilian" version of the CZ-82. It's exactly the same pistol, with a nicer finish and chambered in .380 ACP. They even use the same magazines.
Not EXACTLY the same pistol, by NEARLY the same. There were a couple of minor changes -- including the trigger guard, mag release, and frame shape (on some CZ-82 models in the grip area). I think there was a change in the slide release, too -- but don't remember the details.

More importantly, the 82 has a polygonal barrel (which you'll swear is smoothbore when you look at it), while the 83 is polygonal ONLY in 9x18, but uses lands and grooves in .380 and .32 ACP barrels. (Yes: the the 83 came in .32 ACP and 9x18, as well as .380, while the 82 only came from the factory in 9x18.) As noted, the .380 and 9x18 models used the same mag -- but you can fit one extra .380 round in the mag.

A barrel change is possible, and a few milsurp models were thus changed by the importers from 9x18 and brought into the U.S. as .380s. As noted, the CZ-83 was primarily intended for civilian markets -- and could be had in blue, glossy blue, polycoat, and satin nickel finishes. There were also some special edition models with flashy finishes, like gold, shiney nickel, two-tone, etc.

CZ has announced that production of the CZ-83 has been (or will soon be) discontinued.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; February 5, 2013 at 08:19 AM.
Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 06:50 PM   #21
Mike-Mat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2010
Location: Phoenix area
Posts: 361
Bought one of those surplus CZ83 (380 ACP). What a great gun for the money. Worked EXCELLENT with 4 different kinds of ammo (including reloads). The only feed problem I had was with some funky conical nose JHP bullets. Super accurate. I assume the CZ82 is just as good. I already had ammo and dies for 380, to the CZ83 was my choice. It's the first gun I've ever decided to name. In honor of it's Czech(police)/Russian(KGB) origins, I've named it Boris.

Just so you know the CZ82 & CZ83 are identical except for the chamber. Even the magazines are interchangeable.
__________________
Mike Mattera - Tips For Mfg
Video Training For CadCam Systems
http://www.tipsforcadcam.com
Mike-Mat is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 02:16 AM   #22
Armchair Bronco
Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 28
I just bought a nice EG Makarov and I love it. But folks are right: CZ-82's won't be around in their current numbers for much longer, and this is also an excellent gun.

All forms of ammo have dried up, but I predict that when things start returning to normal, a well-stocked gun shop will probably offer several inexpensive ammo choices in 9x18.
Armchair Bronco is offline  
Old February 24, 2013, 06:51 AM   #23
lowercase
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2012
Posts: 231
I have both the Makarov and CZ82. Both are superb guns that are drying up in supply. I would have no problem recommending either, as a "get one while you still can" type of thing.

However, if you're looking for a military design (and you want 9mm Luger) for not too much cash, you might want to take a look at the 9mm version of the Yugoslavian Tokarev M57 made in the Zastava factory. These are brand new guns and and the 9mm ones are designated M70 vs the normal designation of M57. I'd go for the 9mm version because the Tokarev 7.62 x 25 ammo is scarce and pricey. I have a Romanian Tokarev, and ammo hasn't been plentiful at all.

I'm throwing this suggestion out there because I'm looking at grabbing one in the near future. A rugged, all steel, proven design in 9mm with modern safety features appeals to me. Also, at $260, they're roughly the same price as milsurp Makarovs, CZ82s and Tokarevs.

Both Classic and J&G websites have the M70, but Classic is sold out. Here is a link to both sites:

http://www.jgsales.com/cai-zastava-t....-p-59547.html

http://www.classicfirearms.com/hand-guns/zastava-m70a

Last edited by lowercase; February 24, 2013 at 07:09 AM.
lowercase is offline  
Old February 24, 2013, 11:43 AM   #24
mastiff1955
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2013
Posts: 1
cz 82 0r markov

I own two cz pistols a cz 50 in 32 acp and a cz 99 in 9mm and both are reliable and fun to shoot I espically enjoy shooting the 32 there small and compact but very accurate ammunation is not a problem and cost for 32 acp is comming down with its growing popularity. Which ever you happen to go with the markov or the cz in 9x18 0r a 32 acp you wont regreat it thanks mastiff1955
mastiff1955 is offline  
Old March 1, 2013, 02:32 PM   #25
rkukoda
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2012
Posts: 2
Makarov

I'll tell you a story of my first Makarov, a Russian commercial IJ-70. It was purchased back in the 1990's when there was a flood of them on the market. I bought it on a whim at a gun show. I rarely buy ANYTHING on a whim, but I couldn't walk away from a modern double action pistol for $118 out the door.

I had a choice of caliber, 9mm Mak or .380. Many were buying it in .380, figuring that .380 would be easier to find down the road, rather than an obscure Russian round that I hadn't even heard of before. Just the same, I went with the 9mm Makarov, because it was the original caliber for the gun, and it was more powerful than .380.

Now, I bought this gun as a tacklebox or truck gun, but the more I shot it, the more I liked it. It was extremely accurate and reliable. It even served for a long time as my nightstand pistol.

Five years ago, just like now, any kind of ammo was scarce as hen's teeth. Ironically, .380 was nonexistant, but I could find ammo for that obscure Russian caliber! The Makarov, along with a pair of TTC Romanian Tokarevs in 7.62 x 25, were the only pistols that got to go to the range during those years.

I have since picked up a CZ-82, and couldn't be happier with it. Larger 3 dot sights, a larger magazine capacity, and mine has the best double action trigger pull of any pistol I own.
rkukoda is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13775 seconds with 9 queries