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Old January 21, 2013, 11:40 PM   #26
pohill
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I live in MA and have a Class A permit, so basically I can buy any gun that's for sale in MA. Some of the modern guns that I own are not Mass compliant but are grandfathered in. The problem is when I try to buy in NH or ME. ME is where I buy all my BP guns, powder, caps, etc. and I can buy any BP long gun or cap and ball revolver, but the store will not sell me a cartridge revolver, even if it's an antique. They do not want to mess with MA laws so they cover their butts when selling to a MA resident. I recently bought an original Springfield Trapdoor 50-70, and a Gallagher .54, but since they both shoot a cartridge, I had to go through a background check. Pain in the arse, annoying, but it had to be done if I wanted those guns. If I bought them in MA, I would not have needed a background check (antiques). Confusing as heck.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:28 AM   #27
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Understand that we are never safe. Ever. It matters not if you like semi-auto rifles or muzzleloaders, precision bolt action rifles or airguns, the anti-gun forces do not care and will not rest until they have effectively disarmed everyone. Their view of the second amendment is so childish as to be laughable. Just today I read an article in the Los Angeles Times that quoted Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa as saying "When the founders passed the 2nd amendment, they didn't have assault weapons back then. The notion that you're violating the 2nd amendment by banning assault weapons doesn't pass the history test or the laugh test. If you need a high capacity magazine with over ten bullets to hunt a deer, you're in the wrong sport".

This from one of the most powerful politicians in California.

We must be ever vigilant and never give an inch. The anti-gun forces use terms like "compromise" without ever giving up anything on their end, and "common sense restrictions" without ever using any common sense themselves. They work at driving wedges between the different factions of the shooting sports and, sadly, are oftentimes successful. How many times have you heard someone quote a "hunter" or a "gun owner" who says no one needs a high capacity magazine. Rest assured, these people are evil and cunning and know exactly what they're doing.

The best thing to do as a firearms enthusiast and a patriot is to always maintain a membership in the NRA, especially in light of the media's unrelenting attacks on all of the good people who comprise the backbone of this fine organization.

And most certainly, do not ever think they will not come after you. As an example, many years ago I belonged to an organization known as the Fifty Caliber Shooters Association. The FCSA had a bimonthly publication and NEVER got in involved in the politics of firearms. Their position was that they were gentleman shooters whose rifles were so large and costly that no one would ever consider them as anything other than sporting rifles. Of course they were wrong and in short order the .50 BMG cartridge and rifle became a media generated bogey man that was successfully legislated against and banned in the state of California - even though not one crime was ever committed by someone using a .50 BMG rifle. Needless to say, the FCSA is a very politically involved group these days.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:41 AM   #28
mrbatchelor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pohill View Post
I live in MA and have a Class A permit, so basically I can buy any gun that's for sale in MA. Some of the modern guns that I own are not Mass compliant but are grandfathered in. The problem is when I try to buy in NH or ME. ME is where I buy all my BP guns, powder, caps, etc. and I can buy any BP long gun or cap and ball revolver, but the store will not sell me a cartridge revolver, even if it's an antique. They do not want to mess with MA laws so they cover their butts when selling to a MA resident. I recently bought an original Springfield Trapdoor 50-70, and a Gallagher .54, but since they both shoot a cartridge, I had to go through a background check. Pain in the arse, annoying, but it had to be done if I wanted those guns. If I bought them in MA, I would not have needed a background check (antiques). Confusing as heck.
I don't think they could legally sell an out of state resident a handgun. A long gun is fair game. But I believe you cannot purchase a handgun out of state regardless of where it is. It has to be shipped between two FFLs to cross state line for transfer.

Likewise, for the cartridge rifle, they're following their state law, which doesn't recognize the background check associated with a "foreign" permit like your MA Class A.

I dare say you would find exactly the same procedure anywhere you go in the country. It isn't just ME law. It's the GCA 1968.
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Old January 22, 2013, 06:51 AM   #29
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The enemy agent in the white house will not be satisfied until you we cant even own a BB gun.There is NO "reasonable" anti gun legislation.
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Old January 22, 2013, 08:23 AM   #30
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FWIW, I agree with prob. I really think it boils down to power, the antis want all guns (including BP) and as has been said bb guns, knives, and pointy sticks because its easy to strongarm someone who's defenseless. Those who have all the power often use it to subjugate those who are powerless.
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Old January 22, 2013, 08:45 AM   #31
pohill
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I don't think they could legally sell an out of state resident a handgun
I'm referring to antique handguns, which they can legally sell if they want to (if the pre-1898 ammo involved is obsolete or unconventional, which it is). But this store's policy is that if they have even one round of an obsolete or unconventional cartridge for sale, then it's not obsolete or unconventional. They will sell an antique cartridge revolver to a NH resident, but not a MA resident. But they'll sell me a cap and ball revolver with no background check, no permit check, not even a driver's license check.
Truthfully, with the laws in the mess they're in, I don't blame the store. Antique cartridge ammo is definitely a gray area.
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Old January 22, 2013, 10:01 AM   #32
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Funny to see Obama backtracking now in his conferences to the public. I read a study recently that claims that the American public now owns more rounds of ammunition than the Federal government.

That has to make them think....
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Old January 22, 2013, 04:36 PM   #33
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Pohill,

I'm also an LTC A holder, and while I can see what you are saying, you know first hand how insane the laws are in Mass. I can understand the store owners fears of becoming tangled up in a mess. Not saying that your view is wrong. Just that I can see the other side of it too. Would the store perhaps ship the gun to your local FFL? I know its a pain in the ass, but it could be a way of purchasing the gun/guns you wish to buy.
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Old January 22, 2013, 06:59 PM   #34
pohill
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Like I said, I don't blame the store but it can get out of hand. For example, the Gallagher .54 uses a cartridge without a primer - ignition is via a musket cap on a nipple. They did not have to do a background check for that gun. They will not deal with a MA FFL at all, and they will not ship an antique to MA.
But it all works out. Background checks are quick and painless. They have a good supply of antiques, repros, powder, caps, balls and bullets, enough to keep me coming back.
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Old January 22, 2013, 08:19 PM   #35
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They WILL come for your Black Powder weapons after they get the rest.
Do NOT let this happen!
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Old January 22, 2013, 10:18 PM   #36
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"As long as ATF classifies cab & ball & black powder guns in general as non fire arms we'll be okay but if that changes......." With all due respect, it's not an ATF decision. It's in the '68 GCA.
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Old January 22, 2013, 10:37 PM   #37
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dickydalton you are correct! The anti-gun groups stated years ago (back in the 1980s) that they would like to disarm Civil War reenactors who use muzzle loaders.
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Old January 23, 2013, 02:42 PM   #38
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I expect that in the end, no federal legislation will pass that restricts any gun rights, including muzzleloaders. I also expect that any executive orders will merely be ineffective window dressing that, at best, will give the appearance of protecting society while actually doing nothing.

I don't say that because I think that proponents of the legislation and executive orders will give up, but because the opposition to those things will overwhelm any support.

I'm surprised by the number of folks in my area who don't care to own guns, but also don't want to see any further restrictions placed on them. It's very heartening to me. I have no idea if it's a national trend or just something local, but I like it.
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Understand that we are never safe. Ever. It matters not if you like semi-auto rifles or muzzleloaders, precision bolt action rifles or airguns, the anti-gun forces do not care and will not rest until they have effectively disarmed everyone.
This is my belief as well. I hope no one is out there thinking that just because you shoot black powder that this issue does not concern you. Remember that old saying, "When they came for the Catholics, I didn't speak up because I wasn't Catholic..." and so on, until no one was left to speak up when they came for you.

The President's executive orders are largely harmless. That is because the President is not a king and cannot pass legislation directly. It's unlikely that there will be any legislation will be passed. In fact it is unlikely that the currently proposed AWB will even be allowed for a vote - they won't risk voting on it if they don't have the votes to win because then everyone who voted for it will get voted out of office for nothing.

We are probably pretty safe with black powder guns...until someone goes on a shooting spree with a pair of BP revolvers or a repeating carbine.

Steve
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Old January 29, 2013, 02:08 PM   #40
stepmac
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I doubt the guns will go, but I'm not so sure about the powder and caps. All you've got to do to ruin and old muzzle loader is to make the ammo illegal. They can do that too. I'm sure some will try. I don't trust the feds any further than I can throw them by their eyelashes.
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Old January 30, 2013, 09:42 AM   #41
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It will IMO. They want all your guns. It's not about safety it's about forcing us all down the slave road. All guns stand for freedom and individual rights and they want that breed out of us. Here in NJ it started years ago. I posted this on another muzzloading sight and think it is worth mentioning in this thread.

To anyone who thinks "I'm safe I only own black powder guns and I can buy them anytime over the counter". For years now, the state of New Jersey has ruled that all black powder guns, including muzzloading shotguns, rifles, pistols, BB guns and SLINGSHOTS, I repeat SLINGSHOTS are indeed firearms in the eyes of NJ law and subject to the same laws as any other gun. A firearms ID Card is required to purchase any rifle or shotgun, this can take over a year to obtain. Once you have obtained that card from the cheif of police only then can you apply for a seperate pistol permit to purchase a handgun, this is good for only one gun, a seperate permit is required for every handgun you want to buy. Carrying any of these on your person or in your car or truck even if unloaded, without the proper paperwork and going to or from an approved range can land you in jail, facing financial ruin and prison time.
Many of the guns on the contraband list of the antigunners are already banned in the Garden State. I remember when the law went into effect, you had four choises:
1. Turn then it. with NO compensation. No grandfathering in.
2. Have them altered by the state to render then unfireable (Welded to crap) at your own cost.
3. Remove them from the State (What most did).
4. Apply for a class 3 permit for eack now banned gun. NJ has never approved any class 3 permits to anyone but police and very few of them.

Some of the guns banned were:
M1 Carbine, AR-15 and clones, M1A's, AK's any handgun designed for a magazine of over 10 rounds. and many more including shotguns.

Here is how they work it. As far as I know they never sent the NJ State Police after anyone's guns, BUT If they do catch you in possession of said contraband for any reason (house fire or any reason they might enter your home) you are done for.
Make no mistake, they want them all and it is not about safety, it's about subjecting us to their will. I don't know where this is going to end but were in for a rough time of it.
I remember when this new law passed I had friends that worked
in several gunshops and they told me the State Police came in with a portable copy machine and made copys of the yellow purchaser forums

(I forgot the # of this form) but all the now banned firearms that were legally purchased in the past. Totally against the law but it did not matter, they did it anyway.

Remember once the Second Amendment is gone it's gone for good. We only have to look at other countrys to see what they have in store for us.
Gallant Americans gave their lives for the right to keep and bare arms and we inherited that right. The Ball is in our court. If we let our freedom slip away we don't desere it.
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Old February 1, 2013, 12:19 PM   #42
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BP guns here are firearms for legal purposes. Some of the newer inline guns have thumbhole stocks. Some changes might happen if certain "appearance" standards get acted on. Many musket models have bayonet lugs, etc. Spooky times we live in.
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Old February 1, 2013, 03:16 PM   #43
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We may get to serve in the Army of the Confederacy again yet....
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Old February 1, 2013, 04:09 PM   #44
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I just hope our sons and daughters in the armed services at the time realize that it's not about slavery this time, but about Becoming slaves to the Govt!!
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Old February 1, 2013, 04:19 PM   #45
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Well as a Military member, I took an Oath to Uphold the Constitution of the Unites States of America, and DEFEND it against ALL Enemy's Foreign and DOMESTIC!!! I will not carry out ANY order or support ANY order that violates that oath. And I had a talk with all my brothers in my section and we ALL unanimously agreed. I believe in the patriotic beliefs of my brothers in arms and I doubt any would carry out or support such an order.
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Old February 1, 2013, 09:57 PM   #46
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Quote:
"BP guns here are firearms for legal purposes. Some of the newer inline guns have thumbhole stocks. Some changes might happen if certain "appearance" standards get acted on. Many musket models have bayonet lugs, etc. Spooky times we live in."

Indeed...yet Cabelas is able to ship blackpowder firearms right to my doorstep via UPS...how does that work? Because while Illinois views BP as a "firearm", BATF does not, if I am correct.
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Old February 1, 2013, 10:10 PM   #47
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you forget the people running the show are people who think europe especially englad has overly liberal gun laws
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Old February 2, 2013, 12:16 PM   #48
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Thank you Deerslayer, I would hope that our soldiers would see it that way. I think the present government would use UN troops for their dirtywork in such an event that they need to murder Americans in their homes to get their agenda implemented. Pray for the best but be prepared for the worst. What they propose is clearly unconsitutional. Time will tell, either we will prevail and be hailed as patroits or fail and go down in history as terroist. History is written by the victors. I beleive the American people's worst enemy is the leftist media. They hate us and use every trick in the book to destroy our traditional way of life, they hate the Constituion unless they can use it to advance their agenda. They want you and your family in line and doing exactly what they order you to do, against you princibles or not. They want total control, of you, and your family, and they can't accomplist this while you and I are free. Remember, freedom is just a word if you don't have it, and only free men and women own guns.
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Old February 2, 2013, 01:34 PM   #49
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See most Liberals "THINK" that Americans are past all that. But I personally believe you can only beat a dog so much, till he turns around and takes your hand off. just sayin.
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Old February 4, 2013, 03:20 PM   #50
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What shocks me is the 'new breed' of police officers who are trained that no gun is truly legally owned. I have discussed this with many who still train at the academy after I retired and they are advising them to confiscate ALL guns encountered (legal or not) and let the owners petition the courts to get them back....FWIW
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