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Old January 31, 2013, 02:56 PM   #26
Technosavant
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Quote:
Read it again. It never once says that those agreements are required to be recognized. It says

a nonresident of Illinois may carry a handgun in accordance with this Act if the nonresident:
(A) is 21 years of age or older;
(B) has in his or her immediate possession a valid license that authorizes the individual to carry a concealed firearm issued to him or her by another state; and
(C) is a legal resident of the United States.

And goes on to say that it "applies only to nonresident concealed weapon or concealed firearm license holders from states that honor Illinois concealed weapon or concealed firearm licenses."

There are a number of states that will only recognize a state's permit if that state recognizes them, so the reciprocal agreements are important and "the Department" is required to make them, but they are not required to be recognized. Iowa, for example, has universal recognition. Since Iowa recognizes the permits that would be issued under this law, Illinois would automatically recognize Iowa's.
Thanks for clarifying. It looks like we MO folks would also be good to go, since we also have universal recognition. It would be great to be able to carry when I visit the in-laws.
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Old January 31, 2013, 03:23 PM   #27
Luger_carbine
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From what I can see the Chicago Democratic Machine is trying to trade a pretty oppressive AWB for a very watered down carry bill.

If I'm following the story right, the democrats (yes democrats since Emanual, Culllerton, Munoz and Acevedo are democrats) showed their hand in taking two swings at trying to get an AWB passed earlier this month.

Good luck to the people of Illinois - last state to have carry.
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Old January 31, 2013, 03:32 PM   #28
Scimmia
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Quote:
Now here is how I understand it:

IL will enter into reciprocity agreements with States that have similar trianing requirements (see my above quote, or lines 6-9 on page 16 of the source document). If the state, such as Indiana, doesn't require training, there will be no recipriocity agreement.
True. What you're missing is the reciprocity and recognition are two separate things. With the bill as written, Illinois will recognize (honor) any state that recognizes them. There will be no reciprocal agreement with Indiana, but if Indiana independently recognizes Illinois, Illinois will recognize them, no formal agreement required.

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Scimmia, do you have a link for that? I'm reading that a 3/5 majority overrides gubernatorial vetos:
Quote:
speedrrracer, Scimmia is simply wrong on the point of overriding the Governor's veto
I'm not wrong. The bill was never passed, so it was never veto'd, so there was never a vote to override a veto.

A bill passing with a 3/5ths majority doesn't magically become immune to a veto. The Governor can still veto the bill, which would then require the legislature to vote to override the veto.
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Old January 31, 2013, 03:41 PM   #29
Shane Tuttle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luger_carbine
If I'm following the story right, the democrats (yes democrats since Emanual, Culllerton, Munoz and Acevedo are democrats) showed their hand in taking two swings at trying to get an AWB passed earlier this month.
And, since you either didn't/won't read what I JUST STATED in this very thread and are either refusing to provide the FULL facts of this case or failed to see the author of this bill, I'll try and say this again in plain language you will hopefully understand;

Brandon Phelps, a DEMOCRAT, is the author of this bill!!!
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Old January 31, 2013, 04:46 PM   #30
mack59
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The point being that the bill was two votes shy of the 3/5 requirement for passage and to override the Governor's veto would require no more than the 3/5 vote again by the same legislators who would have passed it originally. Those members were already voting against the wishes of Madigan, Cullerton, and Rham, who wield more real power than the Governor. So your statement that "Overriding a veto is traditionally MUCH harder than getting the bill passed in the first place, even one needing a super majority." is not accurate. Quinn's veto is almost irrelevant in this issue as it currently stands.
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Old January 31, 2013, 09:39 PM   #31
Scimmia
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Quote:
So your statement that "Overriding a veto is traditionally MUCH harder than getting the bill passed in the first place, even one needing a super majority." is not accurate. Quinn's veto is almost irrelevant in this issue as it currently stands.
You can think that if you'd like, but as I said, traditionally it is much harder to override a veto. Check some veto override votes, they're virtually never the same as the original vote. Give the Chicago political machine more time to threaten, blackmail, and run a negative public opinion campaign, and I guarantee they would be able to influence the second vote.

"The point being" that where you said I was wrong, I was absolutely right. There was no vote to override a veto, so we have no idea how it would have come out.
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Old January 31, 2013, 11:15 PM   #32
Tom Servo
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As Shane intimated, this isn't a blue vs. red issue. A friend from Illinois has pointed out stark differences between Chicago Democrats and Democrats from Illinois as a whole. There's a whole state outside of Chicago.
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Old January 31, 2013, 11:26 PM   #33
btmj
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There's a whole state outside of Chicago.
Wow, you don't know how funny that is... or perhaps you do.

As a MO resident in the St. Louis area, I know a lot of Illinois folks... It always seems like Chicago thinks it is a state, and the rest of Illinois is a third-class attachment to the Great State of Chicago...
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Old January 31, 2013, 11:58 PM   #34
Al Norris
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This thread at Illinois Carry has a request that members not discuss on the open forum, any concerns with the current bill.

It seems that the anti-gunners have been viewing these threads on open gun boards to find out the strategy and related issues to the current bill.

I've talked it over with the staff and I feel we should follow their lead.

Hence, this thread will be closed, but stickied, until such a time that the bill has been voted up or down in the Illinois legislature. Todd Vandermyde (the NRA lobbyist) has put a lot of time and work into this bill. However, there are still things to be added or deleted from the bill over the next couple of weeks. Hence discussing strategy or direction in a public forum might very well be a very bad idea.

I know that this seems to be counter-productive to open discussion, but I feel this is a time for us to be discreet and respect the wishes of the Illinois carry community. Solidarity is called for.

Those of you that are also members of IllinoisCarry can let our brothers and sisters know that we at TFL, stand with them.
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