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Old January 31, 2013, 07:53 AM   #51
zincwarrior
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zincwarrior
Statistically it doesn't matter. Unless you're shooting them with an RPG, odds are you're going to need multiple shots to stop the aggressor.

So then more shots would be better (i.e. the 9mm)
Yes actually. Thats my theory anyway, and both myself and the wife have CC pieces based on that. Your mileage may vary.
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Old January 31, 2013, 10:09 AM   #52
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Holy mother of all that is sacred the horse is nothing but dust now.

Shot. Placement. Is. King.

9, 40, 45, 38, 380, 357mag/sig, 10, you name it. Shot placement. That's all. Shot placement.

Ugh. And I doubt you shoot both equally well. You may think you do. But one is easier. Don't believe me? Remove the ease of element from the equation. Cool calm and collect at a range. Try under stress and see how well you do with the "equally" matched idea you have going on.


Oh. Did I mention shop placement?


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Old January 31, 2013, 10:23 AM   #53
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As many have said, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. I often switch up between .40S&W, .380, .32ACP and .22WMR as a carry weapon and I guarantee you that I can put you in the ground with any of them. Shoot what you like and learn to shoot it well and don't worry about what someone else thinks is best.
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Old January 31, 2013, 10:35 AM   #54
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Oh. Did I mention shop placement?


Sent from my phone...expect typos.
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Old January 31, 2013, 02:37 PM   #55
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I opted for the 40 over the 9

practice with whatever you choose.


The Sheild in 40 seems to soak up the extra recoil of the round
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Old January 31, 2013, 02:51 PM   #56
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40 hits harder and makes a bigger entry hole
If your requirement for a firearm is that it makes a bigger hole why not use a .45. I have a .45 here that holds 14 rds the same as most .40 caliber firearms.
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Old January 31, 2013, 08:53 PM   #57
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Question for Manta49

Not relevant to discussion but curious here, how are the gun ownership laws in N. Ireland? I remember the police in Derry carried but the Garda in the Republic did not.

Also, I miss Ireland badly and want to go back! You are blessed to live there my friend.

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Old January 31, 2013, 09:04 PM   #58
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Personally I prefer 9mm over .40. In my opinion if you want more than a 9mm just go with a .45.

I prefer .45 over both, but wouldn't feel like I don't have enough "stopping power" (really not the right term when it comes to pistol rounds) with proper, high quality self defense ammunition. I see no need for .40
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Old January 31, 2013, 11:37 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
LMFAO. I disclosed that in my phones signature!!

Haha. Something my girlfriend would probably say "shop placement".


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Old February 1, 2013, 05:08 AM   #60
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I'm a little confused as to what your point is here.
The 357 Sig has superior ballistics and terminal effect of the 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP as evidenced by those LE agencies that use the round.

Quote:
This caliber gives you the magazine capacity of a .40, with the ballistic performance within the realm of some .38 super loads. Personally, I think the capacity alone on the .357 sig is discouraging enough.

But that's just me.

Here's a comparison of 9mm, .38 super, and .357sig for reference.

http://38super.net/Pages/comparisons.html
The data on that link for the 357 Sig is for the watered down version. Underwood is achieving over 1500 FPS in real world testing in 4" barrels with a bonded 125 grain bullet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ughIFOrIP_w
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Old February 1, 2013, 09:43 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by pico
Buy the Glock .40 then you can take it down to a 9 mm with a conversion barrel if .40 is too much for you. Or else you will be here debating this until the mods close the thread.
Can't stand the grip on the Glocks. Wrong angle (at least for my hand).


Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW4ME
Any advancements to a 9mm HP would also apply to a 40
9mm typically recoils less and holds a round or two more
True, but at some point you reach the point of diminishing returns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW4ME
40 hits harder
I don't think that this point can be argued. But is the extra oomph of the .40 worth one (or two) less shots per mag, and the extra recoil (i.e. slower follow up shot).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
Shot. Placement. Is. King.

9, 40, 45, 38, 380, 357mag/sig, 10, you name it. Shot placement. That's all. Shot placement.

. . .

Oh. Did I mention shop placement?
If that is really true, then why doesn't everyone shoot .17 cal pistols for personal defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine

Ugh. And I doubt you shoot both equally well. You may think you do. But one is easier. Don't believe me? Remove the ease of element from the equation. Cool calm and collect at a range. Try under stress and see how well you do with the "equally" matched idea you have going on.
You may be right about that. Recently I've shot the S&W Shield in both .40 cal and 9mm. Unfortunatlly my test firings were 5 days apart and I shot the .40 first (actually the first time I had ever shot a pistol), I performed adequatly well with both. It felt like I shot the 9 better, but the conditions were quite differnt (.40 was an outdoor range on a calm day, first time I had shot a pistol, the 9 was an indoor range after I had put over 100 rounds downrange with different pistols several days earlier).

Quote:
Originally Posted by slappy
As many have said, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. I often switch up between .40S&W, .380, .32ACP and .22WMR as a carry weapon and I guarantee you that I can put you in the ground with any of them. Shoot what you like and learn to shoot it well and don't worry about what someone else thinks is best.
I guess my concern is that being a new shooter, in the unfortunate cirsumstance that I would need to use my pistol, I don't want to run into a situation where the caliber of my weapon isn't sufficient to "do the job", but I also don't want to run into the situatoin where "one more round" would be needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean1818
The Sheild in 40 seems to soak up the extra recoil of the round
Interesting to note, since that is the weapon I am mostly likely going to get (if I can find one). Have you had the opportunity to shot both (the 9 and the .40) side by side?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisianaAviator
"stopping power" (really not the right term when it comes to pistol rounds) with proper, high quality self defense ammunition. I see no need for .40
Maybe leathality would be a better term. The rest of your post is kinda my real question. Is the 9mm round (using the right high qualify ammunition) sufficient to "get the job done".
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Old February 1, 2013, 11:51 AM   #62
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Since I'm looking at the same gun (just in two differnt calibers)
To me the gun is more important than 40 or 9mm.
If the gun gets too small then 9mm would be my pick, but I greatly prefer 40 in a gun that handles it well.

To illustrate my point... I own a PM9 and Glock 27 - each is well matched to its ammo - but I would not own a PM40 or a Glock 26.
Too much kick from the tiny PM40 and the G26 seems like wasted potential.
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Old February 1, 2013, 12:18 PM   #63
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Maybe leathality would be a better term. The rest of your post is kinda my real question. Is the 9mm round (using the right high qualify ammunition) sufficient to "get the job done".

I would say yes. Although I'm a .45 man, I carry 9mm frequently as well. Many police agencies (including my local PD) use Glock 17's stoked with Speer Gold Dot JHP +P 9mm and I don't hear any complaints.

There are some manufacturers who make 9mm +p+ JHP that sends a 115gr bullet going over 1400fps. That's no joke
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Old February 1, 2013, 12:30 PM   #64
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Dashunde, I'm looking at the M&P Shield
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Old February 1, 2013, 12:43 PM   #65
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Nanuk

The 357 Sig has superior ballistics and terminal effect of the 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP as evidenced by those LE agencies that use the round.


The data on that link for the 357 Sig is for the watered down version. Underwood is achieving over 1500 FPS in real world testing in 4" barrels with a bonded 125 grain bullet.
The 357 Sig is a good round, I have a G32 bbl for my G23 but I still think the .40 offers more overall. Underwood 135gr .40 is also achieving over 1500 fps from a 4" bbl. Unless you're planning on shooting through a car door, I don't see the Sig offering more or being superior. The .40 has a broader range of bullet weights and can also be loaded to non-watered down levels.
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Old February 1, 2013, 01:18 PM   #66
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The 357 Sig is a good round, I have a G32 bbl for my G23 but I still think the .40 offers more overall. Underwood 135gr .40 is also achieving over 1500 fps from a 4" bbl. Unless you're planning on shooting through a car door, I don't see the Sig offering more or being superior. The .40 has a broader range of bullet weights and can also be loaded to non-watered down levels.
Do doubt about about it, the 357 Sig is a one trick pony.
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Old February 1, 2013, 01:47 PM   #67
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my $0.02

.40 is very likely to shoot though. Meaning pass into, then through, and out of your target - and into what/whoever is behind it.

I would only carry 180 grain SD rounds in a .40 carry weapon. Otherwise go with any stock 9mm hollowpoint config.
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Old February 1, 2013, 04:46 PM   #68
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If that is really true, then why doesn't everyone shoot .17 cal pistols for personal defense.

lol stop making jokes. It's tickles. Cause someone wouldn't ask that.

Did you see me put shot placement with the following calibers only? Started with the smallest I believe adequate. 9mm.

Anyways, carry on.


AND!

Forgot to add..yes, yes....it is true. Shot placement with real handgun cartridges.


Now you can carry on private.
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Last edited by Constantine; February 1, 2013 at 04:50 PM. Reason: AND!
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Old February 1, 2013, 04:55 PM   #69
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M&P shield is awesome. I havent shot the 40 Cal version.

Would love to see a Shield in 45.
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Old February 1, 2013, 05:09 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine
Quote:
If that is really true, then why doesn't everyone shoot .17 cal pistols for personal defense.


lol stop making jokes. It's tickles. Cause someone wouldn't ask that.

Did you see me put shot placement with the following calibers only? Started with the smallest I believe adequate. 9mm.

Anyways, carry on.


AND!

Forgot to add..yes, yes....it is true. Shot placement with real handgun cartridges.


Now you can carry on private.
So this if shot placement is all that really matters then you could probably have just stopped your list with the 9. Since in small compact / sub-compact guns (which is what we are talking about) it is going to have far less recoil than any of the others, which will (as I understand it) improve accuracy and follow-up shot rate and accuracy.
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Old February 1, 2013, 06:05 PM   #71
Constantine
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Originally Posted by mbrittb00 View Post
So this if shot placement is all that really matters then you could probably have just stopped your list with the 9. Since in small compact / sub-compact guns (which is what we are talking about) it is going to have far less recoil than any of the others, which will (as I understand it) improve accuracy and follow-up shot rate and accuracy.
If it helps you sleep at night.

I have all the ones I mentioned though. They're even more! D:



YMMV bub.


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Old February 1, 2013, 06:36 PM   #72
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Old February 1, 2013, 06:48 PM   #73
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9mm although w the shortage I understand if a person is tempted to choose 40 Cal.
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Old February 2, 2013, 12:05 AM   #74
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http://idpa.kohagen.com/resources/50cal3.JPG

A 40 cal?!? That's a little smaller than a 50 cal right?

(The one all the way to the left)


Lol .40S&W


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Old February 2, 2013, 11:10 AM   #75
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Mbritt, maybe just start another thread (or search for a review) asking Shield 40 owners how they like it.
It may very well handle the 40 nicely while giving up just one round to the 9mm version?
If thats the case it would easily be my pick.
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