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Old January 29, 2013, 08:23 PM   #26
Coyote Blue
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Quote:
Please....we've been through this. There is an abundant history of distrust and acceptance of regulation for the act of carrying a concealed weapon in this country.

Does the RKBA extend outside the home? Yes, but most state constitutions have provisions regulating it, and those have stood for over 200 years in most cases. One would have a hard time arguing that such a thing as so-called "constitutional carry" really exists, except perhaps in a militia context.

The subject of this thread is in the title. If we want to debate whether it's a good idea for states to mandate training, start another thread.
Sounds like an excellent poll idea.Will do.
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Old January 31, 2013, 12:52 AM   #27
hermannr
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Aguila Blanka wrote:
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Other states, such as Pennsylvania, require only a background check. I don't know of any statistics showing that Pennsylvania has a significantly higher per capita incidence of negligent discharges by CCW holders than Texas, so I'm forced to conclude that Texas is simply gouging Texans by unnecessarily requiring a more expensive and complicated qualification than what's needed to accomplish the purpose.
WA, PA only require fingerprints and BC for CC, nothing for OC. VT requires nothing...anything more is a "poll tax" and an elitest Jim Crow law.

As much as those that have taken, or must take, courses to be able to carry, there are no specific statistics that show WA, PA or VT are more dangerous that say NM, which has unlicensed open carry, but for a CC license the requirements are a bit overboard (IMHO)

Actually, for reported ND's that I heard about in WA last year? Cops 3, CPL holder 1. Cops have more manditory training every year than an state requires for a carry license, yet, in a state with no manditory training for our CPL (and there are almost 400,000 active CPL's in WA, and an unknown number of people that carry (legally) without a license) there was one reported NG discharge. I do not know how many LEO's are in WA but I would bet it is less than 400,000
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Old January 31, 2013, 02:26 AM   #28
Coyote Blue
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Actually, for reported ND's that I heard about in WA last year? Cops 3, CPL holder 1. Cops have more manditory training every year than an state requires for a carry license, yet, in a state with no manditory training for our CPL (and there are almost 400,000 active CPL's in WA, and an unknown number of people that carry (legally) without a license) there was one reported NG discharge. I do not know how many LEO's are in WA but I would bet it is less than 400,000
In 2008,the State of Washington had 174 sworn Police Officers for every 100,000 residents. See this survey:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/csllea08.pdf

Quote:
There were more than 300 full-time
sworn personnel per 100,000 residents
in the District of Columbia (722), Louisiana
(405), New Jersey (389), New York
(341), Illinois (321), and Wyoming (317)
(figure 4).

In contrast, there were fewer
than 200 full-time sworn personnel per
100,000 residents in Washington (174),
Utah (175), Oregon (177), Vermont
(178), Kentucky (183), Minnesota (185),
West Virginia (186), Alaska (189),
Michigan (190), Iowa (195), and Maine
(195). (See appendix table 6 for stateby-
state agency and employee counts.)
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Old January 31, 2013, 03:37 PM   #29
Warrior1256
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Kentucky requires an eight hour class that includes lecture time, written test, and range time with a score of 11 hits out of 20 shots at the 7 yard line.

I think the training is especially good because it teaches you the law about where you can / can't carry and under what circumstances you may / may not use deadly force. Well worth the time and money.
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Old January 31, 2013, 04:08 PM   #30
hermannr
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Ok Coyote, that would mean there are somewhere around 35k officers in WA.. Last specific number I heard on CPL's was 395k+ and going up at about 4000 a week.

Warrior, There is also unlicensed OC in KY, Can you tell me if unlicensed OC people in KY have more problems that licensed CC people? I don't think so.

What is it about a government mandate that one size fits all, makes it good? In WA it is your responsibility to know the law. They had you a bulletin that has all of the firearm laws and safety tips. It is what is used in hunter safety training, and tell you...you need to know what is in this, study it.

Requiring individual responsibility usually generates individual responsibility. Yes, it is YOUR responsibility to know the laws..even if you take a week's instruction...it is still YOUR responsibility. In WA no-one can say, "but my firearms instructor did not teach us THAT".

Last edited by hermannr; January 31, 2013 at 04:22 PM.
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Old January 31, 2013, 05:54 PM   #31
Aguila Blanca
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So getting back to the original question, which was "What state has the most in depth CC course requirements?" ... is there any doubt that Texas wins the prize?
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Old January 31, 2013, 08:10 PM   #32
Coyote Blue
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Quote:
Ok Coyote, that would mean there are somewhere around 35k officers in WA.. Last specific number I heard on CPL's was 395k+ and going up at about 4000 a week.
Very good,Hermann! You won that round!
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Old January 31, 2013, 08:16 PM   #33
Coyote Blue
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So getting back to the original question, which was "What state has the most in depth CC course requirements?" ... is there any doubt that Texas wins the prize?
None. The bottom of the proverbial barrel. A disgrace for the Lone Star State. And that rhymes. Wow! And OC still just can't quite get through.

And an additional bonus: Take the 49'ers and give the 3.5 Sunday.
San Francisco fan since 1957. So caveat emptor.
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