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Old January 28, 2013, 09:44 AM   #51
Revolver1
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40 cal is awesome. Better than 9mm. I wish I still had mine for reloading purposes. 45acp is the fad now. Everything comes full circle! I wouldn't pass up a good deal on a used 40!
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:20 AM   #52
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not me either

I am actually looking to trade my 9mm for 40- simply because I shot my SR40C better than all my pistols. No need to keep those which I don't shoot/ use anyway.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:49 AM   #53
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If you argue on the basis on an anecdote, typing it in bold, doesn't make it a universal law of physics - even from Mas.

It's been studied intensively and modern 9s aren't that different from 40s and 45s.

Everyone should take research design in college or they should teach it in high school.

I was an expert on a case where a big guy had a paring knife stuck in his chest and he dropped stone cold dead almost instantly - carry a paring knife.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:02 AM   #54
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Don't know why or if people are dumping their .40 S&W pistols, but I recently bought a used Ruger P944 so I would have a .40 S&W to go with my other calibers.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:03 AM   #55
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Only issue I see as to the possibility of 40 S&W being plentiful on the used gun market is price of ammo. JMO if you are shooting + P 9 mm you are so close to 40 S&W barely a difference in recoil.
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:21 PM   #56
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Read some of Massad Ayoob books on calibers and stopping powere.....
"A large guy tried to shoot a police officer on a routine traffic stop. The officer drew his 40S&W loaded with 135jhp and fired one shot. The bad guy dropped and was clinically dead 10 seconds after the shot. The corroner called the police department and asked what explosive charge was inserted into the bullet that was used". The 40S&W brings more to the table than a 9mm. That's not to say a 9mm isnt effective but big and fast is better than smaller and fast.
This doesn't impress me one bit. The same could happen with any caliber, even a .22 short.
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:38 PM   #57
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The 40 S&W is probably the most popular caliber right now. I see them more than any other gun so I'm not surprised you're seeing so many being traded in. It's just the law of averages those things are everywhere.
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:06 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
If you argue on the basis on an anecdote, typing it in bold, doesn't make it a universal law of physics - even from Mas.

It's been studied intensively and modern 9s aren't that different from 40s and 45s.

Everyone should take research design in college or they should teach it in high school.

I was an expert on a case where a big guy had a paring knife stuck in his chest and he dropped stone cold dead almost instantly - carry a paring knife.
Completely true, and I'd never argue it. I'd be very confident with a 9mm or a .45 too. It does get tiresome though, as a .40 fan, to read about how .40 is hard to handle and/or superfluous, I shoot .40 better than 9 out of the same platform. It doesn't make sense and shouldn't be that way but it is.

Choose what you like. None of them are "useless".

...except for .25 ACP
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Old January 28, 2013, 02:14 PM   #59
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.40 offers nothing to me as I prefer .45 ACP and 9mm over it. I also favor the 10mm, so .40 just doesn't interest me.

But.......

Lower the fodder price of .40 to 9mm levels and I'll need some new guns to go with the new caliber.
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Old January 28, 2013, 02:17 PM   #60
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...except for .25 ACP
You should try explaining that to David Phillips.

http://smallestminority.blogspot.com...ing-power.html

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At the moment when we danced to the front of the office, I realized I had a way out. I finally remembered my little Beretta 950SB in my right pants pocket. Yep, a lowly 25ACP, with rounds in it, that I hadn't even bothered to purchase. A friend of mine gave me a box of 25 ammo ( cheap Winchester hardball stuff), and that is what was in it. NO ONE will EVER realize the way I felt when I realized that I was not going to go alone. People talk about an epiphany, but that doesn't even begin to describe the feeling when someone gives you the ability to fight back. I pulled it out very deliberately, and thumbed the hammer back. All the while, my attacker was still trying to stuff the sword in deeper, and I was doing my best to keep him from succeeding.

I knew using a sub caliber firearm center mass would be a joke, so I pulled it up in front of my right eye, while thumbing back the hammer. When he realized what was about to happen, his eyes became REAL large. That was what I aimed for, his left eye. I only thought I'd fired about two or three times, but in reality I fired five rounds. That was a surprise to me when they told me that.

I hit him four times in the left eye, and the other round was taken into one of his hands, and went through my front office door fifteen feet behind him. The door is a steel cased door, and the bullet penetrated all the way through, out into the parking lot.

Two of the four bullets that went into his head penetrated all the way through, and fell spent, on the ground ten feet behind him. The last two bounced around in his head, one lodging in the upper cervical region of his spine, and the other in his grey matter. He dropped like a brick, and made a lot of back and forth motions on the floor, like someone having a seizure. Yeah, I guess it 'was' a seizure.
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Old January 28, 2013, 02:40 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by 45_auto View Post
You should try explaining that to David Phillips.

http://smallestminority.blogspot.com...ing-power.html
Crazy story. Glad he made it.

But to be fair, a butter knife in the left eye at point blank is deadly, and it's not a good defensive weapon.
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Old January 28, 2013, 02:58 PM   #62
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Not "very few" at all for street law enforcement officers. Shootings on traffic stops are over half of all police shootings based on most stats.
What about civilians they hardly do many traffic stops.
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:38 PM   #63
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Meh... Ever maybe consider Massad Ayoob might know a few things more than yourself?? Massad might just be one of the top experts alive today on the subject. He may have had more than one antidotal incident to give his opinion. Drink your coolaid and shoot what you want, it's your butt.
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Old January 28, 2013, 04:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by manta49
What about civilians they hardly do many traffic stops.
This maybe my "combat vet gunnut" coming out, but I don't see where having the ability to shoot through auto class, and the confidence the round I carry can do so, is that big of a deal. Just another thing I can be prepared for if need be.

I don't know, carjacker has a gun and I'm sitting at a stop light, someone jacks my truck with my girlfriend in it as I'm walking out of the gas station, the possibilities are endless.
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Old January 28, 2013, 04:17 PM   #65
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He may have had more than one antidotal incident to give his opinion.
What incidents did he have. ? An open question how many civilians on this forum have had to shoot trough a car windscreen. ?
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Old January 28, 2013, 04:54 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by manta49 View Post
What about civilians they hardly do many traffic stops.
Like SPEMack, I'll go ahead and take what advantages I can get. Carjackings happen. Criminal activity happens when you don't expect it.

If you want to go by pure odds, the odds are tiny that you'll ever have to use a gun defensively at all, so why do you own one?
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:20 PM   #67
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40/9/10mm/38 Super

I've owned and shot all of the above calibers as well as 45ACP and 45 Colt among others.I cannot shoot well with the 40 and I don't know why-not in a Glock nor an HK.I did halfway decent with an XD,but not enough to buy one.I can shoot a lot better with the 10mm in a Glock 20SF.I like the 9mm because I have a couple of BHP's and I really like that platform a whole lot.the Hornady Critical defense ammo has improved the 9mm a lot and I also have some hot Georgia Arms 124 gr Gold Dot.The 38 Super is a little limited by what is commercially available but Corbon makes a very good defensive round and Armscor makes some very affordable practice ammo.
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:36 PM   #68
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If you want to go by pure odds, the odds are tiny that you'll ever have to use a gun defensively at all, so why do you own one?
You are right the chances of having to use a firearm for defence is tiny. The chances of having to shoot trough a windscreen are smaller again. That's why when choosing a firearm its ability to shoot trough a windscreen would be bottom of my list of priorities. That's why when some say they like the .40 for its alleged ability to shoot trough windscreens better than 9mm i see it as a poor reason to choose a caliber.
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:53 PM   #69
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Windscreen? How about if you have to shoot out the tyres or engage a target in the boot!?
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:55 PM   #70
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Antitodal? I guess if you drink some Kool-Aid you might need an antidote.

Sigh. Appeals to authority - not evidence. And Mas wasn't saying that other rounds aren't efficacious. I do know him, by the way.
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Old January 28, 2013, 06:14 PM   #71
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From just shopping around lately it does seem like there are more .40 guns available on the shelf.
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Old January 28, 2013, 06:22 PM   #72
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I think some people get a .40 because they think a .45 is too big, or too big for them, or a .45 requires more expensive ammo. Several friends have bought .40's after having a 9mm and wanting something bigger. And, as stated, lots of police are on the .40 bandwagon. I grew up in the days when there were only 9's and .45's, for the most part, for semi-autos. I later bought some 10mm's, and enjoy them along with the 9's and .45's. The .40 always seemed like an answer to a problem that didn't exist, although there ARE now some fine compact guns in .40 that DO fill the gap for a reasonably compact auto with just a LITTLE more punch than a 9, and less buk than a .45 compact. Maybe the "fad" is dying a bit, and those that felt a .45 was too big are replacing their .40's with bigger guns.
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Old January 28, 2013, 07:29 PM   #73
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^ Some would ask why the 45 is still around with the advent of the 40. Similar ballistics offered in smaller platforms with higher capacity.
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Old January 28, 2013, 07:35 PM   #74
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One answer would be pressure, which affects blast, reloading tolerances, and other things; another would be that some people prefer larger platforms due to hand size and shape, and similar recoil in a gun that does not fit as well may result in higher perceived recoil; another is that boring more metal out of a 9mm platform means some compact .40 designs push metallurgical limits closer than people may like.

Other people will come up with other reasons, I am sure.

Last edited by MLeake; January 29, 2013 at 08:15 AM. Reason: than, not that.... another iDevice spelling issue.
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Old January 28, 2013, 08:02 PM   #75
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^ Some would ask why the 45 is still around with the advent of the 40. Similar ballistics offered in smaller platforms with higher capacity.
I like the subsonic with a big bullet angle myself for the .45. In the world today that is the best fit for it.
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