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Old January 25, 2013, 03:30 PM   #26
Mike Irwin
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.308 Winchester didn't hit commercially until the 1950s. what became the round was not even out of development in 1946, so it was definitely not a box of 1946 Remington 308 ammo.
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Old January 25, 2013, 04:47 PM   #27
Bob Wright
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Mike,

Are you aware of any H/S guide that attempts to date a specimen?

For example Winchester and Remington-UMC used a variety of headstamps over the years, and along with case construction, I've tried to narrow down the date a particular specimen was made.

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Old January 25, 2013, 09:56 PM   #28
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I'm not Mike but maybe I can comment. A few people have tried to, but I don't know of any books. I was told one time that that information was available to law enforcement, but I have not been able to confirm that and the FI guys I spoke with knew nothing about any such records, though they said it could be useful at times in dating a crime scene.

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Old January 25, 2013, 10:44 PM   #29
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I wonder if that 2 46 ammo is marked R A, not just "R". If so, it is probably Remington contract .30-'06 trimmed and sized later to use in a .308 rifle.

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Old January 26, 2013, 08:50 AM   #30
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To the best of my knowledge, Remington has never used a single letter headstamp, so I sincerely doubt that the brass was made by that company.

The .308 Winchester hit commercial markets in 1952.

Bob,

Unfortunately, I don't believe such a book exists, nor do I really believe one is possible. Some companies have used certain headstamps literally for decades.

Some, of course, have had shorter lives, such as CAPH (Colt Auto Pistol Hammerless) which was only used commercially for perhaps 20 years, but for the most part I think the best you'd be able to do would be break most cartridges down by era, not even by decade.

JonnyC is heavy into the cartridge collecting fraternity, so he may have some thoughts.
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Old January 26, 2013, 09:37 AM   #31
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Thanks Mike!
I hope I can help here.
First, that R * 2 * 46 * headstamp is Brazilian, used by the Realongo factory, and it is commonly found on 7x57 Mauser rounds. I would check the length of the rounds. It has also been used on Brazilian .30-06 production, so it might be cases that were later cut down by a .308 reloader. There absolutely was no .308 Win. production in 1946.
As to headstamps, I think I'm on pretty safe ground stating that there is no "secret" headstamp or marking guide available to law enforcement only. CSI-type guys are always asking cartridge collectors for headstamp info, and we actually have a good number of them in the collecting fraternity.
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Old January 26, 2013, 10:45 AM   #32
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As to dating cartridge specimens, I tried several years ago to make notes of when ammunition companies went by whatever name they were under at the time. (?) For example, ammunition made by E. Remington & Sons bore no headstamp. These are identified by the beveled rim and that they were of a caliber proprietary to guns of Remington manufacture, i.e. .44 Remington. When the Uninon Metallic Cartridge Co. and Winchester bought Remington, the H/S was "REM-UMC", the R-P, etc. Trying to determine the period of the company's existance was a help.

Mayb I'll ressurect my notes.

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Old January 27, 2013, 04:18 PM   #33
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Jonnyc and others thks vm for the R 2 46 308 info. i'll admit i was shooting pistols when that guy arrived was shown brass after he left by the RSO of the day who thought it was Rem. i thought was early for commercial 308 Win and also thought it might be resized 30.06.

unfortunately i only kept one piece i will try to find it and post picture.
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Old January 27, 2013, 05:41 PM   #34
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just measure the case length. If 63mm it is .30-06, if 57mm it is 7mm Mauser, and if 51mm it is most likely .308.
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Old February 14, 2013, 12:22 PM   #35
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Need help identifying a .30 caliber rifle round with foreign head stamp

At a local range, I picked up (to my knowledge) an empty .30 caliber rifle cartridge with a foreign head stamp. Its origin could be possibly Farsi/Persian or Arabic, but I am not sure. From other cartridges that I've seen with Arabic head stamps, this one looks very different. Therefore I'm hesitant to say that the language or origin is from an Arabic speaking country. I've also checked the sites listed in the OP, but have yet to see any cartridge with a head stamp similar to this. Has anyone encountered a cartridge like this before?

The case is fired, so I'm sure that it's dimensions may be a little off as it isn't re-sized, but from what I've measured:

Case length: 54mm
Head stamp/case at shoulder diameter: 12mm

Attached I included pictures of the case in between a .308 win and a .30-06 for comparison.





Attached Images
File Type: jpg cases4.jpg (74.2 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg cases2.jpg (80.6 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg cases3.jpg (120.3 KB, 117 views)

Last edited by Ambishot; February 14, 2013 at 12:30 PM.
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Old February 14, 2013, 04:45 PM   #36
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You have 7.5mm French MAS case there, made by Syria in 1957.
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Old February 15, 2013, 02:08 PM   #37
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I found this one day at the range and can't figure out what it is.
It's 40.3mm long
Mouth is 8.6mm outside, 7.27mm inside
Head is 12.9mm
Berdan primed

Can't read all the markings but it looks like:
MK2A4 7-55 RVA8 . 166

Any ideas?


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Old February 15, 2013, 05:39 PM   #38
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Hmmm......what kind of range do you shoot on???

I believe you have an artillery primer there.
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Old February 15, 2013, 05:49 PM   #39
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Really????

It's not any kind of range that would have any or ever would have had any artillery on it.

Probably someone had it in their bag and dropped it or something.

Thanks for answering my question, I've been wondering what it was for a few years.
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Old February 15, 2013, 06:05 PM   #40
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Googled it looking for MK2A4 artillery primer instead of ammo and found it right away.
You are absolutely right.
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Old February 16, 2013, 04:36 PM   #41
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Maybe not terribly uncommon. In my colection but it will be on the range tomorrow. Anybody know what it is?
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Old February 16, 2013, 05:57 PM   #42
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Austrian 8x56r
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Old February 16, 2013, 06:23 PM   #43
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Well, technically that's a "German" 8x56R. You can find the exact same round and headstamp, also from 1938, but with an Austrian eagle. The one pictured has the German eagle from just after the Anschluss of 1938.
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Old February 16, 2013, 06:26 PM   #44
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Did they also load this cartridge in Hungary, seeing as it is called a 8x56 Hungarian. If so what would the head stamp look like?
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Old February 16, 2013, 07:23 PM   #45
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Ever hear of the Austro-Hungarian Empire?

Until the end of World War I they were part of the political entity. Hungary used the same weapons afterwards.
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Old February 16, 2013, 07:33 PM   #46
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From what i have read the ammunition was made in Austria in 1938 for their m95's.After they went Nazi with Adolph they started applying his stamp of approval.I don't think the Germans ever produced the ammunition,they just used what was already in place.
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Old February 16, 2013, 07:46 PM   #47
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Quote:
Ever hear of the Austro-Hungarian Empire?
Of coarse, its where my family hails from. Still separate countries with separate armories and production. M95's were made in Steyr Austria and Budapest Hungary. I dont know if ammo was produced in Hungary also or just Austria.
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Old February 17, 2013, 05:59 AM   #48
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"Still separate countries with separate armories and production."

The point is that they weren't until 1919.

Hungary wasn't created out of the old A-H empire and didn't fall into existence with brand new firearms for its military, in a new chambering.

They used what they had access to, and what they had access to in 1919 were MILLIONS of Steyr straight pull rifles left over from the Empire.

Even well into the 1930s, during the depression, there wasn't a huge amount of money to be had for rearming, so the old 8x50R rifles from the empire stuck around.

Austria and Hungary maintained close ties in the 1930s, and both adopted, and manufactured, the 8x56R round that was developed in Austria by Slothurn.
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Old February 17, 2013, 08:35 AM   #49
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@Mike Irwin- I may not be asking the question correctly. Without getting into a history debate that I would probably loose. Did they produce ammo with a diferent headstamp in Budapest as well as Steyr? The rifles were produced in both places.
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Old February 17, 2013, 08:50 AM   #50
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Yes, the ammo was produced in both Austria and Hungary. When I get my collection unpacked I will try to remember to post a few headstamps.
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