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Old January 23, 2013, 09:17 PM   #26
steveNChunter
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At this point my barrel selection will depend on what (if any) M77 MKII bolt at a reasonable price I can find. If I find one with a larger face diameter than I have now that will open up some more options. I would love to find one with a .470 diameter and rebarrel it with either a .260 rem or .257 roberts. But if I rebarrel with my current bolt it will most likely be .204 ruger
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Old January 23, 2013, 10:00 PM   #27
reynolds357
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I dont know much about Rugers dimensions, but you should be able to open up the bolt face and build a .243 or 7-mm08 or anything else you want on a .308 case. Most of my re-barrels involve opening up bolt faces.
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Old January 24, 2013, 12:08 AM   #28
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Considering most rebarrel jobs cost between $400-700 depending on barrel used, you can buy a New Hawkeye in .260 or .257 by splitting the difference. I'd only rebarrel to a cartridge that I couldn't get a new production rifle in rather than spend the money to make it into something I can buy new off the shelf in the basic package. There are a couple of .260's and several .257's to choose from on Gunbroker right now in the $600 price range.
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Old January 24, 2013, 05:26 AM   #29
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Reynolds357-can you explain how exactly to "open up" the bolt face? Should I let a gunsmith do this? Please forgive my lack of knowledge but Im only 24 and still have alot to learn. Unlike most people my age I dont know everything

taylorce1- so does that mean when you "shooot out" the factory barrel on a rifle it should become a parts gun unless you want to make it a wildcat or obsolete caliber?
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Old January 24, 2013, 09:32 AM   #30
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taylor force its his dads rifle. and just cause its new doesn't mean it is gonna be a good one, ruger does not stand behind any accuracy guarantee only function. I gave up on them with my new hawkeye in 257 Roberts. 6 inch groups isn't a rifle. fwiw bobn
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Old January 24, 2013, 01:31 PM   #31
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No it is totally worth a rebarrel, it just isn't worth it to pay a Smith to open the bolt face or buy a new bolt and rework the action to feed a larger cartridge. Why pay $400-700 for a rebarrel and another $200-400 in action work to get a .260 or .257 when you can pick one up for around $600? Send your rifle off and have it made into a .223 again or .204 Ruger, and buy the other rifle you want for the same amount of money you would spend converting your one rifle to a larger cartridge and have two nice rifles.

I never said that he had to stick with Ruger, I only referenced them because that is what he already owns. A lot of companies offer a .260 for around $600 but a $600 .257 Roberts is a little harder to come by. Find the rifle you like, it doesn't have to be any particular brand.
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Old January 24, 2013, 05:55 PM   #32
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taylorce- I get what your saying. I wouldnt want to spend that kind of money on a rebarrel job. It'll most likely be going .204 unless I stumble upon another bolt for cheap sometime soon.

I have heard mixed experiences as well on the accuracy of M77s but this particular one would shoot one ragged hole groups @100 yards earlier in its life. They have opened up to about an inch now
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Old January 24, 2013, 09:03 PM   #33
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How a bout a 458socom bolt gun totaly differant with kick butt power in a short action .
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Old January 24, 2013, 09:08 PM   #34
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Steven, yes a gunsmith will have to open up the bolt face. Having said that, a gunsmith also has to do the re-barrel job since it is not a barrel nut rifle. I agree with re-barreling. It might cost as much as a new rifle, but if you use a decent rifle builder, it is going to considerably out shoot the factory rifle in the same price range. Some of the best money I ever spent was sending a shot out 70 7 Rem mag to Mcgowen for a re-barrel and accuracy work. (That was before my friend started building bench rest and 1000 yd rifles. Now he gets the work.)
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Old January 25, 2013, 05:29 AM   #35
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Yeah I know I cant actually swap the barrels myself, an older friend of mine does gunsmithing on the side and he has done a barrel swap for me before. It was a Remington 700 varmint that went from .220 swift to 6mm remington. Ill have to ask him if he can open up a bolt face.
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Old January 25, 2013, 10:07 AM   #36
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Will it really cost $400-600 for a barrel swap? I think it will be less. Maybe not in a match Shilen barrel, but there are pretty good barrels for a lot less.
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Old January 25, 2013, 12:05 PM   #37
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John, most of my hunting barrels are in the $300 range. Add barrel finish, chamber cutting, turning the threads, etc. etc. etc. and unless someone can do it themselves or have a friend do it; a re-barrel can get expensive. You are correct, you can use a low grade barrel, but in my mind that defeats the purpose.
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Old January 25, 2013, 02:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
I have heard mixed experiences as well on the accuracy of M77s but this particular one would shoot one ragged hole groups @100 yards earlier in its life. They have opened up to about an inch now
Factory performance of M77s means nothing.

For the majority of bolt action rifles, the 'magic' is in the barrel and its installation, with a little bit of help coming from proper inletting and bedding.


Quote:
Why pay $400-700 for a rebarrel and another $200-400 in action work to get a .260 or .257 when you can pick one up for around $600?
Around here, a basic rebarrel (w/ rechamber) runs about $100. It's another $25-40 for bluing. Opening the bolt face is about $40-60, including extractor modification. (If the extractor needs to be replaced, they run about $30.)

For the M77, "action work" to go from .223 Rem to .260 Rem can be done a few different ways. None of them are difficult, expensive, or require machining.
1. Remove the "magazine fillers" and replace the follower - about $8.
2. Replace the magazine box and replace the follower - about $18.
3. Remove the magazine box and replace with a single-shot block - about $18.

Total cost, excluding the barrel: Less than $250.

A couple years ago, I picked up a Shilen Match 6mm 1:10" twist barrel for around $130, by keeping a close eye on Brownell's and Midway's clearance products.
Rebarreling my own M77 from .220 Swift to a 6mm wildcat cost me just a bit under $300, total (right around $290).


Since he can do the rebarrel pretty much for free, his total cost would probably be about $50, max, plus the barrel.


Cost aside....
Sometimes, it just feels better to bring a trusty friend back to life, than to throw it away and buy something else.
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Old January 25, 2013, 04:31 PM   #39
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222 mag sounds neat, but basically its a .223. Gent I shoot with has a .222 mag.

250 Savage, 257 Roberts or a 260 Remington would be my list to consider and I'd probably go with the .260 Remington. If it wasn't so similiar to the 6.5x55 Swede that I have 4 rifles in, I'd already own one.
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Old January 25, 2013, 08:16 PM   #40
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.260 rem is what I would like to go with, if I could do it cheap enough
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Old January 25, 2013, 08:41 PM   #41
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6.5 Creedmoor.
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Old January 25, 2013, 10:28 PM   #42
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Reynolds- make a case for the 6.5 creedmoor being superior to the .260 rem and Ill be open minded about it. I know lots of people swear by it to be the best 6.5/.264 there is but I dont see it. There were already so many other good 6.5 calibers out there before the creedmoor came on the scene. This is entirely my opinion and I may be completely bass ackwards in my thinking but for hunting purposes, which is about 75% of what I do with my rifles, the creedmoor has to take a backseat to the .260, 6.5x55 swede, and .264 wm. The .260 is the only short action of those 3 so thats why it was the one in consideration for the rebarrel. I challenge you, make me a believer of the Creedmore.
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Old January 26, 2013, 02:30 AM   #43
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As far as that goes, make a case for the .260 over the Creedmoore. They are both short action .264's. They are ballistic mirrors. The .260 is a dying cartridge and the 6.5 is going to come on like gang bangers due to the fact it has advertising dollars behind it.
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Old January 26, 2013, 05:21 AM   #44
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Well for me being a non-reloader as of right now, factory ammo selection is a big deal to me. The 6.5 is limited to hornady match or superformance. The a-max bullet in the match ammo wouldnt be great for hunting and the accuracy of the powder in the superformance sucks and can generate some questionably high pressures from what I hear. They could at least make it in their "custom" line but they dont for some reason. If I did reload, yes they are very similar. But .260 rem brass can be made from re-sizing any .308 family brass. Not sure about what will work with the 6.5 and hornady is the only one that sells 6.5 creedmoor brass as far as I know. I dont consider the .260 rem to be dying, at least not around here.

I will agree that the two are very similar ballistically
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Old January 26, 2013, 10:35 AM   #45
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I will throw in another vote for the 300 Blackout, it will give you 30-30 type balistics with out any bolt work.
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Old January 26, 2013, 10:44 AM   #46
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Another possibility would be one of the 6MM/223 conversions where you could launch upwards of 107 gr. bullet.
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Old January 26, 2013, 11:11 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummer70
Another possibility would be one of the 6MM/223 conversions where you could launch upwards of 107 gr. bullet.
You could actually launch 115-120 grain bullets if you have it twisted right 1:7.5 or 1:7. However it is a bad idea in the .223 case as bullets that long will have to be seated deep possibly past the ogive. Or you'll have to throat the barrel long and run it as a single shot. The .221 Fireball/Whisper case is what you need to use if you want to run long bullets seated to magazine length and maximize your powder capacity.

Quote:
Whispers®: A wide range of calibers encompass the ‘Whisper®’ series of cartridges. A “Whisper®” cartridge must be capable of sub-sonic extreme accuracy with very heavy bullets for its caliber; i.e. 240 grains in 30, as well as moderate to high velocity while maintaining excellent accuracy with light bullets for the caliber; i.e. 125 at 2300 FPS in 30. The 300 Whisper® was the first of the series, and, contrary to what you may have read about it, the fact of the matter is the cartridge was designed as a multi-purpose cartridge from the beginning. Its design parameters, in addition to the ballistics quoted above, were that it must be capable of being used in the AR-15/M-16 family of rifles, Contenders and bolt action rifles as well as being easily suppressed. I know that because I invented it. It revolutionized the tactical suppressed sub-sonic field in controllability in full auto, power and accuracy. It has been very successful and has gained wide acceptance as a hunting round for mid-size game, such as deer, and has probably taken a wider variety of game than any other handgun cartridge in the same time span. Due to its small case capacity, its recoil is very mild. One Whisper® series from 6 mm, 6.5 mm, 7mm, 300 and 338 is based on the 221 fireball case. Another series is based on the 7 BR case in 338, 375 and 416 caliber to convert 308 case head size actions. Another used the 460 Weatherby case for 50 caliber conversions to 300 Win Mag case head size rifles. Others use rimmed cases, such as the 50-70-750, for use in single shots.
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Old January 26, 2013, 07:33 PM   #48
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Steve, I cant tell you the last time I saw a .260 Rem around here. The factory loading of the Creedmoor is its beauty. Savage is building its rifles around Hornaday's ammo. The Savages will drive tacks with the superformance powder.
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Old January 26, 2013, 09:57 PM   #49
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I was only speaking from my experience with Superformance ammo in my dads .270. made it shoot shotgun pattern groups and fouled the barrel something awful. Makes sense what you are saying about the Savage rifles and Hornady ammo though.
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