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Old January 20, 2013, 10:53 PM   #1
WildBill45
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Saiga AK rear Stock ... anyone know of a better one???

I like my Saiga overall, but I do not like the stock. It lines up poorly with me, as I do not shoot with the stock bottom corner like I see a lot of shooters doing today. I will not change my shooting style, which has been tempered over many years of shooting in the field, in competition, and on the streets. When I am carrying my working rifles in Alaska or Africa I know my eye lines up perfectly without adjustment, either from the shoulder or the hip.

I do not care about looks ... I am not into the camo-high-tech-gadget-man look, unless it works better for me. I need a stock that drops more at the rear. Can anyone suggest other stocks that fit the Saiga and works as such???
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Old January 22, 2013, 04:21 PM   #2
Erno86
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I have an effective VLTOR collapsible stock on my Krebs Custom Saiga AK; but I believe that it does not have any stock drop.

Vltor Weapons Systems

www.vltor.com
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Old January 22, 2013, 05:00 PM   #3
Fishbed77
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WillBill45,

Judging from the photos you have posted elsewhere of your Saiga AK, it appears to have a Warsaw-length fixed stock. The comb of this style stock is at the level to give you a proper cheek weld when looking down the iron sights. I don't think you are going to find many stocks that have a lower comb (though I could be wrong). There are stocks that have higher combs(either fixed or adjustable) to allow a proper cheek weld using a scope, but this sounds like the opposite of what you are looking for.

Many Western shooters (who tend to be taller than your average Russian) feel that the Warsaw-length stock is a little too short in length. Perhaps this is what you are experiencing? For that reason, so-called NATO-length stocks with a longer length of pull exist.

Personally, even though I am 6'-1" with long arms, I find the Warsaw-length stock works just fine. I do have to mount the butt of the stock an inch or so closer to the center of my body, but can still achieve a proper cheek weld with the stock fully seated on my shoulder (i.e. not just the stock bottom corner of the butt on my shoulder).


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Old January 22, 2013, 06:42 PM   #4
WildBill45
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NATO-length stocks with a longer length of pull exist.
Interesting information indeed!!!

Maybe I find someone at my gun club with such a stock and have a go with it. I can shoot my rifle well, but I think I can do better, AT SPEED MIND YOU, with proper stock. Based on your new information, I will so some research, especially at the next gun show. The show we had last weekend was wonderful, and if I had known the difference I could have found a Nato there I am sure. The show was at a large mall, convention hall, and the line outside was well over 500 shooting enthusiasts waiting to get in all day long!!! I will look to try one at our club or at the next gun show.
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Old January 22, 2013, 09:32 PM   #5
chris in va
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I started with a NATO on mine but discovered it was difficult to shoot the AK straight on with the length. Sold it and got the Warsaw.

That being said I was never happy with either. The buttplate was just too small.

The adjustable on my AR is much better.
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Old January 23, 2013, 08:10 PM   #6
AK103K
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The standard length AK stock is the proper LOP. It has the same LOP as pretty much any other fixed stock combat rifle you come across. The NATO length is actually too long for natural shooting.

One thing Ive noticed when I see people complaining about the stock being to short is, they dont shoulder the rifle properly, and try to get a cheek weld on what most would call the "comb", on the rear portion of the AK's stock. The place you want the cheek weld, is on the narrow portion, just behind the top cover. You want your head down, and your nose to, or alongside the top cover. This will give you a natural and proper sight alignment when the rifle is shouldered.
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Old January 23, 2013, 08:13 PM   #7
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The adjustable on my AR is much better.
Put an adjustable on your AK! Heresy, I know... I guess the AK is supposed to pound your shoulder into jello.
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Old January 23, 2013, 08:20 PM   #8
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If an AK (in any of their chambered calibers) is pounding your shoulder into jello, youre not holding it properly.
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Old January 23, 2013, 10:07 PM   #9
WildBill45
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The place you want the cheek weld, is on the narrow portion, just behind the top cover. You want your head down, and your nose to, or alongside the top cover. This will give you a natural and proper sight alignment when the rifle is shouldered.
I will play with these parameters and see how they work, as long as they don't mess up my big bore Africa shooting techniques!!!

As far as shoulder jelly ... I am dubious as to how a 30/30 on power scale could do that??? An AK is NOT a power rifle by any means. Saying such messes with the folks who are recoil sensitive, when the AK is a very pleasant rifle to shoot.
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Old January 23, 2013, 10:33 PM   #10
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I will play with these parameters and see how they work, as long as they don't mess up my big bore Africa shooting techniques!!!
I dont think it will. If you shoulder and shoot iron sighted rifles properly, they all pretty much shoulder the same way. Head down and forward, rifle pulled snugly into the shoulder pocket, and if you are shooting a traditional stock, your thumb is along the side of the stock, and isnt wrapped around the grip.

If youre not sure about that last part, you'll soon figure it out, especially with the larger calibers.
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Old January 24, 2013, 08:49 PM   #11
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If you shoulder and shoot iron sighted rifles properly, they all pretty much shoulder the same way
Pretty much true, but, and there always is a but in life, I am a maverick at this kind of thing. Some rifles I cant, some my elbow is up, and some is as you describe. I make the rifle fit me, and not me fit the rifle in most cases, and have won 12 medals in the World Police & Fire Games. I did the same thing in martial arts, and did equally as well back in the day. My style was no style, and I changed depending on who I was up against.

Stocks: My old Weatherby 300, a german one I think it was, had a stock that made it difficult to see the animal when hit, as the muzzle climbed like the current tax rates! My CZ 416 Rigby with the Euro-stock shot much different than my Current CZ 458 Lott with the Americanized stock. My Springfield Supermatch stock shot great, but the neck was so fat I had to adjust my grip a tad. My sweetest stock of all is my custom Flintlock which fits me like a hug from Cindy Crawford ... I love it!

The AK stock feels like a board ... but I still shoot it well...

I am not sure I like pistol grips on my stock either...
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Old January 24, 2013, 09:11 PM   #12
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Some rifles I cant, some my elbow is up, and some is as you describe. I make the rifle fit me, and not me fit the rifle in most cases
I basically do the same thing. The first thing to go is usually the recoil pads they seem to think we need. I also try to keep all the LOP's to right around 12 1/2"-13" so everything is as close to consistent as possible.

As far as elbow up or down, that usually depends on the type of stock. Stocks with a detached pistol grip, like the AK or AR, I usually shoot with it down, where I usually have some variation of a chicken wing with a more traditional stock.
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Old January 25, 2013, 07:01 PM   #13
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The first thing to go is usually the recoil pads they seem to think we need
Seriously, if you think an AK has recoil, you are either injured, or it is a mental state developed when you first started shooting. This is what happens when "Friends" try to scare a new shooter with a big boomer ... all they do is make them flinch forever....
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Old January 25, 2013, 07:21 PM   #14
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I think you misunderstood. I never said I thought the AK has recoil, it doesnt, or at least I dont think it does. Just that I remove the recoil pad that seems to be so prevalent on most rifles today, and replace them with butt plates. Just try ing to find a decent butt plate at all is a challenge, let alone finding a good checked steel butt plate. That, and the long LOP stocks that most "bench" shooters seem to want, are the worst thing to have one a gun you are likely to shot "realistically", or "reactively" with.

As far as scaring friends or new shooters, I dont, and the people that do, are, putting it nicely, truly an annoyance. I try my best to teach them to shoot realistically, from field positions, and not rely on the crutches so many seem to think they need to shoot with. Proper technique almost always trumps most of the add ons and/or crutches.
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Old January 25, 2013, 11:57 PM   #15
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Buy a VLTOR tube adapter and then you can use almost any AR stock on the market.
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Old January 26, 2013, 12:43 AM   #16
WildBill45
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As far as scaring friends or new shooters, I dont, and the people that do, are, putting it nicely, truly an annoyance
The comments about recoil and scaring friends was not about you my friend, I knew what you meant!
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