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Old January 21, 2013, 02:14 PM   #1
simonrichter
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FiveSeven - the only one of its kind?

The FiveSeven is around for quite a while now, and with it the 5,7mm round. Although the gun has been highly praised and it seems that it would be an option not only for the military due to its low recoil, long range and high mag cap, nothing new of the same line came out after. No clones, no comparable new developments of other making (apart from maybe the Kel-Tec PMR 30, which is of the rimfire realm, though)...
So what do you think, is there going to be some innovation as far as handguns in "Personal Defence Weapon calibers" is concerned or are 9mm / .40 / .45 going to remain the standard in the foreseeable future, with 5,7 or thelike being just the niche products they are today?
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Old January 21, 2013, 02:28 PM   #2
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I always thought the 5.7 was a great idea and was tempted for a while ... but the ammunition isn't stocked where I shop and I was always a little concerned that it would be a great gun but I'd be unable to feed it ... 9mm and .45acp are my carry loads of choice, but I'm still tempted ...
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Old January 21, 2013, 02:32 PM   #3
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There's also the HK USP (4.6x30mm).
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Old January 21, 2013, 02:56 PM   #4
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IMO... the whole "problem" with the FN 5.7 X 28, is the guns themselves... great concept, poor execution... the straight blow back design, of the gun, blows the shoulder forward about 1/16" & the case is laquer coated to slow down the slide... I had an FN 5.7 X 27, & I shoot the cartridge in a custom made Contender barrel, & I like it ( ball parks between 22 Hornet & 221 Fireball ) that said, a bolt action rifle, or any gun with a locked breech would have negated the need for the laquer coating, & facilitated reloading, by eliminating the excessive sizing needed for re-using the cases...

I just traded off my FN 5.7 X 28, the gun was awesome, to shoot, low recoil, flat shooting, but as a huge reloader, crawling around looking for the highly deformed cases, really ruined shooting it for me... add to the fact, that I could never build up an ammo supply, & everytime the wind blows the wrong way, cartridges were not available... & couple it with the fact, that it's now worth twice what I paid for it, it was bye-bye 5.7... I still reload & have cartridges, as I have a contender barrel...

personally if the cartridges get any bigger, the grip becomes too big, the PMR-30 seems more my type of gun, as the "crawling around" part is eliminated, since it's rim fire...

personally I'd like to see a modern version of the 30 Mauser / 7.62 X 26 cartridge... or someone build a semi locked / locked breech gun for the 5.7 X 28 cartridge, so someone like Starline could produce reloadable ammo...
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Old January 21, 2013, 04:15 PM   #5
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1.)
Quote:
There's also the HK USP (4.6x30mm).
that project has been dropped by HK. Would have been quite interesting.


2.) very interesting, never heard before that the 5,7 cartridge is only working properly with a layer of lacquer (or did I get that wrong)...?
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Old January 21, 2013, 04:18 PM   #6
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yep... laquer helps "slow down" the disengagement of the cartridge, from what I understand, the gun does not function 100% with a polished brass surface
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:27 PM   #7
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I was tempted once, til I saw the price. Thought it was a misprint.
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:35 PM   #8
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& honestly, I wouldn't have had a problem with the price, if they would have not been so hard on the brass, & require the "specialties" that make them aweful to reload...
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
...the whole "problem" with the FN 5.7 X 28, is the guns themselves... great concept, poor execution... the straight blow back design, of the gun, blows the shoulder forward about 1/16"...
Very interesting; I had no idea that the pistol used straight blowback operation. Any idea why FN didn't adopt a locked-breech design?

I could understand if their designers didn't place preservation of the brass high on the priority list, as the gun is designed primarily for LE and the military, but it seems that a locked-breech design could have made the gun more compact.
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:47 PM   #10
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I think Savage made a bolt action in 5.7x28mm

Other than that there is the P90, FiveSeven, and lets not forget the AR-57

I like the ballistics of the cartridge, both in its trajectory and it has lethal terminal ballistics. I like the 20 round magazine. I like everything about the five-seven other than the price and availability of ammunition to feed it.

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Old January 21, 2013, 05:49 PM   #11
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I have no idea... I just bought my gun about the time of the acadamy shooting, when ever that was... couple years ago... but I was really early in reloading the cartridge, big learning curve, bought 1000 once fired cases, when I learned about the shoulder issue... BTW... both the carbine & the handgun operate the same, so both are hard on cases...
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:52 PM   #12
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I never actual saw a Savage 5.7...always heard it's coming, once they get the "feed issues" resolved... so if any actually made one out ??? I'd like to know, it would compliment my Contender...

one of the issues with reloading, is the tiny rim... I'd guess that Savage may have actually had extraction issues with factory ammo, with the laquer on the cases, & the tiny rim... "feed issues" seem like they would have been more easy to overcome ???
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Old January 21, 2013, 06:49 PM   #13
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5.7

Quote:
poor execution... the straight blow back design, of the gun, blows the shoulder forward about 1/16" & the case is laquer coated to
Not correct.
The gun is NOT a straight blow back design, not at 50K psi.
It is a delayed blowback system and, yes, the polymer coating - chosen for its specific coefficient of friction - plays a part in that delay.
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Old January 21, 2013, 08:04 PM   #14
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I liked the idea until I learned that military/LE ammo is proprietary and not sold to the public. I don't like the idea that someone has decided that I'm not to be trusted with the most effective ammo.
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Old January 21, 2013, 08:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
No clones, no comparable new developments...
The 5.7 has been chambered in a couple other guns, one is this Excel MP57.


The 5.7, as well as the 4.6, have found their useful niche and it's just that it's a small niche. Both rounds are very good at doing what they intended purpose is. The 4.6 has been especially effective against certain extremist bad guys.

I have a FN57 and really like the gun. My only wish is that it be suppressed for home defense use. I'd hate to shoot it without hearing protection.

I was really sad to see the HK P46 dropped, but it was reputed to be too less effective out of the shorter pistol barrel than that of the MP7. Our loss.
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex0535:
I like the ballistics of the cartridge, both in its trajectory and it has lethal terminal ballistics. I like the 20 round magazine. I like everything about the five-seven other than the price and availability of ammunition to feed it.
Unfortunately, it seems that FN did themselves a disservice and priced themselves out of much of the market.
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:27 PM   #17
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Wow, this weapon is about as poor a choice for home defense as it gets.

Let's see, it is supreme at penetrating kevlar vests...not needed for home defense.

No stopping power...light round, small caliber. Yeah, it penetrates, so what? Intruder gets a clean through-and-through and then stabs your a**, or bludgeons you five minutes before he bleeds out.

Besides penetrating kevlar, I bet it would travel through your walls, and into your neighbor's house...and possibly through his.

There is a reason it is in a category by itself...there is no market, it is an interesting piece with little redeeming characteristics.

That moron muslim army guy used it in his rampage through that base, and probably saved several lives with his poor selection of handguns.

Give me a .45 everytime in a home defense situation.

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Old January 21, 2013, 11:19 PM   #18
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Blue, have you ever seen what the V-Max bullet does at the velocity it will be hitting something at home defense range? It fragments and imparts the majority of its energy into a target. It produces a large wound channel and it is very lethal. The point I am trying to make is that the v-max does not make a clean hole, it rips a large nasty hole through a target. The v-max bullet is meant for fleshy targets, the fmj bullet is what was used for piercing body armor.

I would trust myself to be able to put round after round into a threat with the minimal recoil.
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Old January 22, 2013, 06:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
No stopping power...
You should educate yourself on the reality of the round. The main reason the Secret Service uses the 5.7 is because it doesn't travel "clean through-and-through". A good quality in a crowd, or a home.
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Old January 22, 2013, 07:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Other than that there is the P90, FiveSeven, and lets not forget the AR-57
There is the Master Piece arms MPA57 series.
https://www.masterpiecearms.com/products.php?cat=57

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Old January 22, 2013, 07:59 AM   #21
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No power?

No stopping power?
The FiveSeven pistol was carried and used by Peruvian commandos when they stormed the Japanese Ambassador's residence in Lima, Peru on April 20, 1997, thus ending a hostage crisis that had lasted 126 days.
There were 14 terrorists involved in the incident. None survived.
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Old January 25, 2013, 02:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
No stopping power...light round, small caliber. Yeah, it penetrates, so what? Intruder gets a clean through-and-through
I learned that even the AP bullets tend to tumble once they have reached soft tissue and thus DO transfer a lot of energy to the target.

Btw. I've also lerned that the magic kevlar penetration power ist not just a matter of the small bullet diameter of the 5.7 - in the meantime, there is ammunition with the same capabilities (or even more) also available in 9mm and .45, so that would not be an actual point in favor of the 5.7...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKMz3tYx-M

nice video on this topic...
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Old January 25, 2013, 02:26 PM   #23
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I had a Five-seveN up until a few weeks ago. I liked the gun and truley believed in its capabilities. The only issue I had was not being comfortable reloading the round and the cost of ammo. When I bought the gun ammo was $18-19 box, now I havent been able to find ammo for a few months (online) and when I do find it locally it was $35 per box for the SS197.

It truley was a hard decision to make and I still miss it but I just didnt enjoy shooting it do to cost. I have a very small gun budget and I couldnt see having a gun that sat in the safe.

Currently I reload for every gun in my safe there for I shoot alot and enjoy my guns. I'm hoping one day I get another one.
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