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Old January 23, 2013, 09:34 PM   #1
scbair
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WWII Walther Question

A friend has a Walther PPK (blued, 7.65 cal) brought back from Europe by his uncle, at the end of WWII. It is in good to very good condition, with flap holster and the military form authorizing him to bring it home. There are no Nazi markings, though.

I realize pics or a more thorough description would be useful, but I don't have any ....

I've checked a couple of the online sale & auction sites, but with very limited success. Any ideas as to a ballpark figure, or range,of value for such a piece?

Thanks in advance!
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Old January 24, 2013, 12:05 PM   #2
James K
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Only those PPs and PPKs bought by the military, individually or on contract, will have the WaA marking. Some sold to other agencies will have factory or agency makings, but many of those guns were taken from German civilians and have no military marks, just the normal eagle/N commercial proof mark.

Jim
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Old January 25, 2013, 03:05 AM   #3
Scorch
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7.65/.32ACP was not a military cartridge in Germany. Most likely a civilian gun confiscated by the occupying US forces.
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Old January 25, 2013, 08:29 AM   #4
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Well, actually it was a military cartridge in that they had lots of guns in service in all branches in that chambering and that cartridge was in the system. It was a standard cartridge, although that is not to say it would have been found in, say, an infantry regiment.

On the other hand, the .380, a more powerful cartridge, was not, even though many were used, most of which would have been captured weapons. The .380 or 9mm Browning was the standard pistol cartridge for Italy, Jugoslavia and Hungary. But when those same guns were manufactured for the Germans, they were made, usually, in .32 ACP.

All the other comments apply, however, and such a pistol will be more valuable than any current Walther product, if not necessarily better made.
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Old January 25, 2013, 01:04 PM   #5
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While many privately owned or captured guns were carried by German soldiers, official ammunition supply was limited to two calibers, the service pistol caliber of 9mm 1908 (9mm Luger) and the 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP). Some .22 LfB (LR) was available for target shooting with small bore rifles or conversion kits. Neither the 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) nor the 6.35mm Browning (.25 ACP) was in the German police/military supply system. When "booty weapons" or obsolete weapons in a non-standard caliber were issued to rear area troops or security forces, ammo was issued with the understanding that there might not be any more available.

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Old January 25, 2013, 01:39 PM   #6
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Supposedly the Finnish Army used more captured weapons than they did of their own. However, in their case, they had already standardized on the 7.62x54r, so there was no problem there. But their handgun was (officially, anyway) a .30 cal. Luger. They had no Soviet pistol rounds in their supply system. So although captured weapons were highly prized, especially submachine guns, when the ammo ran out, they passed them back to the rear troops, which they were supposed to do to begin with.

One of the more interesting oddities of captured weapons during WWII concerns the standard handgun of the Norwegian Army. After the end of that campaign, the Germans disarmed the Norwegian Army. The standard Norwegian pistol was a Colt .45 automatic. So some Colt .45 automatics wound up being used, somewhere at least, by the Germans. Then, in an even stranger twist of hisory, at the end of the war the Germans still in Norway were disarmed by the Norwegians. The Germans were equipped handgun-wise with Lugers, the story goes, and those Lugers remained in use until replaced by--wait for it--Glocks. Also, the Norwegians retained the original leather holsters that came with the Lugers but modified them with a U.S. style wire hanger so they could be used with a U.S. style pistol belt.

A footnote to the story is that the Norwegians exprimentally produced an additional batch of .45 autos, probably 30 years ago now, as a cost study and the resulting pistols were sold on the surplus market.
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Old January 26, 2013, 10:00 PM   #7
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Actually, the Norwegians didn't use many Colts. In 1915-1917, Norway got the OK from FN to purchase 1000 pistols from Colt. (FN had the European rights to Brownings patents, which is why they had to be involved.)

Norway also purchased manufacturing rights to the Colt Government Model (1911 style) and put it into production in mid-1918 as the Model 1912, Cal. 11.43mm. Later in 1918 the slide stop was altered and the designation was changed to Model 1914, Cal. 11.25mm. Some 22,300 were made prior to the German occupation and about 8224 made during that period. The rest of a total of 32,874 pistols were made after the war.

It is my understanding that the Germans used very few Norwegian rifles or pistols, and that most of those seized by the Germans and re-issued went to the Norwegian Quisling (pro-Nazi) forces.

A man who fought in the Polish underground told me that they once found* a German motorcycle messenger with a Thompson SMG, probably taken from the British. They shot up the ammo the German had, then threw the gun in a lake because it was useless. His favorite SMG was the Russian PPSh, which he considered better than the German MP.38/40.

Jim

*The German was missing more than the Thompson; he also lacked a head, having unfortunately encountered some piano wire that happened to be stretched across the road. I was given to understand that when engaged in such wire type activity, one stretches the piano wire at an angle to the road; if stretched straight across, it will reflect the headlight of the motorcycle.

JK
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