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Old January 24, 2013, 05:27 PM   #26
HarrySchell
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What do Biden's bodyguards carry?
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Old January 24, 2013, 05:28 PM   #27
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Quote:
Clearly Biden is hoping to appeal to those who are as uninformed as he is
This has always been so. Facts don't sway an ignorant audience, emotions do, and Joe knows this better than anyone. Like I said before, we can learn from this.
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Old January 24, 2013, 06:02 PM   #28
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Quote - This has always been so. Facts don't sway an ignorant audience, emotions do, and Joe knows this better than anyone. Like I said before, we can learn from this.

But we don't learn from it, wether it is in electing President's, other Government Officials, or influencing gun control debates. We state facts that should be enough to sway the majority of intelligent people, but they have learned how to effectively play on emotions and the hell with the facts, which unfortunately is so much more effective on our greater population that just doesn't take time to understand, or care about the facts. Ask the average person how they feel about their taxes going up this year. They bought into the emotion of the President (Tax the rich), and now they are paying for it.

And the frustrations continue.....
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Old January 24, 2013, 06:12 PM   #29
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The unfortunate truth is that a majority of the people are uninformed about guns in general. They have no wish, nor desire to be involved in the shooting sports. Nor do most of them own, or wish to own any firearm period. They will take what the VP and other politicos say at face value. While they do not trust them on many issues. They actualy believe it when the politicos say that stricter gun control measures will make people safer.


I hate that fact. I wish resonable people could educate the general public. The reality is that is not going to happen anytime in the forseeable future. The thing is when the media shows those standing up for gun rights they tend to show the sterotypical knuckle dragging, chest thumping, sabre rattling fanaticals to show how unreasonable the gun rights crowd are. Compleete with the name calling, and screaming and yelling. ( I hate the double standard when they show the liberals pet groups doing the same thing over some casue or other, and people will symathize with them.)

I am deaf so watching and listening to the from what I seem to gather ws the one way sided talk of people do not need more than so many rounds, and ceartian types of guns to defend themselves, or hunt, or target shoot.


All in all it was exactly what I expected. Total unadultarated hog wash.
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Old January 24, 2013, 06:53 PM   #30
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One way we can win this is to pound away at the fact that the police can't protect us, they can only clean up the mess. I think this would resonate with people because all the new gun buyers flooding the stores these days are doing so for a reason. I wonder how many of them bought a gun with no intention of telling anyone about it?
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Old January 24, 2013, 06:54 PM   #31
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Joe Biden on Gun Control

We shouldn't be afraid of the facts? I think they shade the "facts" to fit their ends just like in a campaign.

Crime went down because of the 1994 AWB? That one is pure BS. Crime has continued to go down for a long time including after the AWB sunsetted.

Restrict "Assault Weapons"? Why... because they want to and they are a symbol when less than 1% of crimes are committed with an military styled rifle.

Machine guns are illegal? That is a new one....

Background checks? There is little evidence to support that having required background checks for all firearm transfers will reduce crime. Joe.... let's study this and let the facts dictate what legislation is proposed.

Let all voices be heard? They only listened to the voices that told them what they wanted to hear./ The pro-gun groups were only invited to the "meetings" so they could say that they were involved in the proposals.

10,000 cops.... they hired no where near that number and after a year or so the local government had to fund their salaries.

I am more concerned about magazine size than assault weapons? Carry more magazines if limited to 10-rounds. He suggested it might take 1 to 1.5 minutes to change a magazine by someone who is not trained. That is time for law enforcement to arrive and maybe one life will be saved.... BS. He doesn't know what he is talking about.

His fireside chat was filled with errors. He claims to be a sportsman. I bet he doesn't even know how to load his shotgun. He also said a shotgun is a better SHTF firearm than a "assault weapon". I'd want both.

Last edited by 22-rimfire; January 24, 2013 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Cleaned a few things up.
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Old January 24, 2013, 07:24 PM   #32
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One thing that bothers me is that these anti gun folks keep saying that legitimately purchased and owned semi-auto 'assault weapons' are on the streets.
They most certainly are not! they are in people's closets, locked in safes or otherwise cleverly stored inside the homes of law abiding citizens, and as such pose no threat to anyone, certainly not law enforcement.

And even when they're not stored away safely, they are in cars being transported to shooting ranges across the country, or at those shooting ranges being used and enjoyed.

IMHO, the ownership of guns is protected by the second amendment, and the shooting sports are protected by the right to pursue happiness. I am certainly happy when I am engaged in my sport of choice!
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Old January 24, 2013, 07:37 PM   #33
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Lets not forget how our popular media news outlets distort the truth to push the liberal agenda. They roll their eyes on camera, etc.. They want to demonize or belittle anyone that thinks a gun is a tool. The liberal democratic party wants to put gun owners in the same social shame as they did with smoking. They feel they can socially eliminate guns on their way to total governmental control and ultimate power. It's always about power, money and dependency.
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Old January 24, 2013, 07:56 PM   #34
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"If you wanna keep people away in an earthquake, buy some shotgun shells."
-Biden

Very interesting video...
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Old January 24, 2013, 08:15 PM   #35
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The police feel "out gunned" by citizens possessing "assault weapons" ?!?

EVERY cop in the area where I'm from have a MINIMUM of their service pistol, (typically loaded with the most hard hitting ammunition available to them, not what you can find a meijer or walmart.) A 12ga pump or semi auto shotgun, AND.....get ready for this Mr. Biden.....an AR15 of some kind in their patrol car. Our local guys ALL have 14.5" barreled bushmasters. Some guys have more...my buddy (when he was a LEO) had his G22, a G19 under the seat, a +p loaded .38 snubbie in the console and a 6" .44 magnum S&W in the pouch on the back of the seat. Along with...a 12ga 870 and a 16" Colt LE carbine. OUTGUNNED!?!

And then went on to say that LE feels outgunned by assault weapons....since they are being carried around on the street by "the bad guys"...which are most likely in possession of them illegally and couldn't give less of a C@#! if they are banned or not. What bearing could that possibly have on a law abiding citizen?

The youtube guy had very good valid points and questions....and Biden didn't answer or address a dang one of them. "how is banning fried chicken going to end obesity problems in the US Mr vice President?" -Biden- "Now I tell ya, I like fish.....fish and blue bicycles, yessir I do" That's pretty much what happened..........idiot
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Old January 24, 2013, 08:15 PM   #36
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I particularly liked the bit about shotguns being better for defense than AR's.

Not that shotguns are a bad choice for some, but I don't see the people that protect HIM using them. Wonder if the Secret Service will be switching to side-by-side 12ga guns soon
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Old January 24, 2013, 08:17 PM   #37
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This whole 'fireside chat' crap by this VP was no more than more cheerleading and pom-pom waving for the public by an anti-gun administration that is bound and determined to keep screaming their point with the hopes that the longer/louder they scream the more people they will recruit to their socialist line of thinking.

This so-called 'chat' confirmed even more that this administration is just using the death's of the people killed at Sandy Hook and other tragedies as a stepping stone to promote their own anti-gun/anti-second amendment philosophy's. Same as when Obama used the children on stage during his speech about the new AWB's

Purely sickening!

Too, the comments about LE being outgunned on the streets by thugs carrying assault weapons? Why then is all the plea bargaining going on in the court system's when these thugs are caught with guns, arrested by a cop who risks his/her life daily to do their jobs and the courts put the thug back out on the street before the cop has a chance to even get his/her report filled out completely?

Last edited by shortwave; January 24, 2013 at 08:31 PM.
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Old January 24, 2013, 08:49 PM   #38
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"If you wanna keep people away in an earthquake, buy some shotgun shells."
Preferably #7.5 Bird shot right? Why I would want to keep people away during earthquakes will remain a mystery.
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Old January 24, 2013, 08:55 PM   #39
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If you have water, food, and supplies, but they don't...
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Old January 24, 2013, 09:20 PM   #40
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So, self defense is only O.K. in an earthquake? Hmmm...


Instead of protecting rights now, its about "for the children!" (meaning push the can down the road, but they forget to mention the rights of those same children to own the same firearms we do, when they are old enough)

Last edited by Fishing_Cabin; January 25, 2013 at 05:21 AM.
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Old January 24, 2013, 09:22 PM   #41
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If you have water, food, and supplies, but they don't...
Certainly they won't be hungry or thirsty with the ground jiggling like that?

Oh he means after? I get it now.

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Old January 24, 2013, 10:04 PM   #42
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We need to fight back on all this crap in an EXTREME and DIRECT media campaign. The NRA needs to shell out the cash for a SUPER BOWL COMMERCIAL.

No fancy dialogue or actors, no warm fuzzy sweaters and fireplaces.

Get a respectable spokesperson to come on screen with a simple background and say FLAT OUT that... "

The AMERICAN PUBLIC is being LIED TO and INTENTIONALLY MISLEAD about GUN CONTROL and VIOLENCE by politicians and billionaire elitists!" "Here are some FACTS along WITH their SOURCES that TELL the TRUTH."

(Show some statistics here in white letters on a black screen. Include facts about LOWER crime rates, assault weapons rarely used in crime, relating to CONFISCATION from registration.)

Spokesperson comes back on screen. "Feel free to read more about this subject and the struggle to maintain our Constitutional AND individual STATE'S rights on online and form YOUR OWN opinions." Thank you for your time.

End commercial.

I think if the Republican Party would be willing to help foot some of the lawsuits that would follow by naming SPECIFIC names than it WOULD BE EXCELLENT to mention them BY NAME.
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Old January 24, 2013, 10:20 PM   #43
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Not sure why the threads were merged but, meh, whatever.

At any rate does everyone who watched it agree that some good questions were asked and he dodged every single one of them? He completely dodged the facts that the one guy was presenting straight off the FBI pages.

JoBi is a d-bag. The media is worse.

Take a look at how they reported this thing. It was nothing like they are reporting it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...-fireside-chat


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...eside-hangout/


I wish someone had a complete transcript of the entire chat to throw-it-up around the web and show how what actually transpired, and the questions that were asked, were totally different from how the media is reporting it.
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Old January 24, 2013, 10:22 PM   #44
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The police feel "out gunned" by citizens possessing "assault weapons" ?!?
Thats funny because my department issues patrol deputies government supplied M16s and still has a store room with racks of them.
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Old January 24, 2013, 11:34 PM   #45
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It was funny seeing Biden get owned by that young feller.
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Old January 25, 2013, 01:43 AM   #46
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Police outgunned-
Quote:
Not true, but increasing training is in order for many. Most police shootings involve drugs/organized crime. No ban will stop firearms from reaching organized crime. Look at the series of arms factories in Northern Mexico, flood of Russian weapons, and influence of Korean Mafia in Mexico cities. All related to organized crime trampling law enforcement
Identifying prohibited individuals-
Quote:
The problem here is predominantly "patients rights" and has little or nothing to do with the NRA or gun control. People simply do not want to report because of liability. This is true in schools also. Almost all of the school shooters gave off clear signals before the shootings, but b/c of PC and such no serious actions were taken
SRO-
Quote:
SROs are a big part of the reason we have "zero tolerance" now. Once they were in local school districts and saw things like assaults they had to act. The schools all changed policies to require all staff to call SRO. Dumbest thing in education today.
1000 SROs for 90,000 schools? I don't think any of my local districts has 50% coverage or is going to spend any more on Police that do little to nothing day to day.
Flexibility for local choice(psychologists) Is there going to be flexibility for arming other staff if hat is what districts want? From his other comment i am guessing no.
More cops from crime bill-
Quote:
They paid 75% for 5 years. How many of those positions remain? Almost none. All of our local staff were cut long ago. The same will happen here after spending lots of "free" federal money
Mag cap-
Quote:
Biden said something like almost no one can control a rifle for 30 rounds so people should use shotguns. Seriously? Even a 5 shot pump shotgun is loosing 120 20 caliber projectiles and even if the shooter aims correctly they aren't going to be as controlled as a rifle shot.
Stupidity-
Quote:
"30 or 40 clips in a magazine" Yes he actually said it. Several times.
General argument to the effect that LEO would be safer from law abiding citizens
Quote:
THis actually was kind of scary to me. Watching his talk it seemed almost an admission that he wants LEO to out gun LAW ABIDING CITIZENS and they would not be happy until that was the case.
This is the law I think states should really be passing:
"Any law enforcement officer, federal employee, or security contractor faces the same limitation on firearms as that faced by law abiding citizens." That would put an end to this crap immediately. If this stuff should be reserved for the military & war than domestic law enforcement doesn't require it. If domestic law enforcement does require it, than citizens in the areas they operate in need it also.
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Old January 25, 2013, 01:46 AM   #47
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I watched it. Generally speaking it seemed each guest was challenging the VP with their questions, but only one really hit a mark, IMO, and that was the young lad. He raised the point of targeting assault weapons, whilst theirs being only a small percentage of the gun problem.

Mr Biden's answer to that was weak and did not hold water. First, there is the affecting the many for the actions of the few (the criminals who shoot at police). Second this still does not address the causes of said crime.

However, I agreed with two things that Mr Biden said.

The first was, whether for or against, that people should write to their congress-person.

Secondly, that people should not be "afraid of the facts" and particularly that research needed to be conducted to understand the pattern of behaviours and the social fabric that leads to this violent behaviour.

Research, provided that they are looking for those causes, not simply evidence that will support one side or the other, can only be a good thing.

As such, research should be very well financed, and independent.
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Old January 25, 2013, 09:05 AM   #48
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The problem with "research" is it gets boiled down to statistics. Almost no one looks at the experiment design. Even if the statistics part is done well it is very easy to find a misleading correlation most people will assume is causation.

It is very easy to say that the shooters all played violent video games 3 hours a day or watched violent movies and that CAUSED the violence. In reality it is more likely they had a drive for violence/empowerment and were using video games and movies as a release/expression. The "research" will almost certainly conclude the former though.
The same with firearms and everything else.
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Old January 25, 2013, 12:30 PM   #49
HarrySchell
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I heard a snip last night about magazines.

Biden said the psycho after Giffords was in the midst of changing magazines when he was swarmed and taken down. I recall he had a 33 round magazine and got swarmed because he got swarmed. A limitation by small magazines didn't happen.

Biden blamed big magazines for making Sandy Hook worse. IIRC, that psycho was changing magazines frequently, before they were empty, leaving many loaded mags on the ground.

Can anyone confirm this?

Biden is either misinformed or a liar.

He also ignored that Virginia Tech was accomplished with two pistols and 10 and 15 round magazines. Neither pistol is on Feinsten's list.
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Old January 25, 2013, 12:31 PM   #50
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If research were of interest, every state would be shall issue at this point.
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