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Old January 21, 2013, 10:14 PM   #26
USAFNoDak
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Tom Servo:
Quote:
He's much smarter than people think, and he managed a few political masterstrokes in his day. The antis would do well to listen to his advice.

When it comes to guns, Clinton is somewhat unencumbered by Northeast Liberal Group think, which also stretches across to Detroit and Chicago. Having grown up in the South, (Arkansas), Clinton is not as scared of guns and not as obsessed with removing them from every day life in America. He thought he could gain extreme political muscle with the Northeast democrats, who basically run the national party, by getting the first assault weapons ban passed. He did gain the muscle but at a tremendous loss for democrats in more rural, southern and midwestern states, which he was more familiar with. Now he's reminding the northeast liberals about those losses suffered by democrats due to the 94 ban. He's not stupid, he's actually a very shrewd politician.
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:27 PM   #27
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^^^^

Yes to all.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:15 AM   #28
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this is largely puffery... the federal government will stop federal aid to those states that refuse to obey their gun control actions and that will be the end to the opposition.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:47 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Alabama Shooter View Post
I am not so sure about that one. In fact I am highly incredulous. Does anyone have a link to a statement from her? Because I doubt there is one.

The other Alabama ones are accounted for. I believe a few others will probably announce as well.

I don't know how I feel about Sheriffs not enforcing the law. I don't think they should have the privilege of picking and choosing. Still support is nice.
What our sheriff (Pat Garret) stated was that he would not enforce these FEDERAL laws and cited a supreme court decision which clarifies local LEOs are not required to enforce any federal laws.
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Old January 22, 2013, 06:21 AM   #30
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"What our sheriff (Pat Garret) stated was that he would not enforce these FEDERAL laws and cited a supreme court decision which clarifies local LEOs are not required to enforce any federal laws."

If the same logic is followed as that applied by SCOTUS on immigration law, then it may be unconstitutional for local LEO's to enforce federal laws. Wouldn't that be nice.
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:37 PM   #31
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has the federal government cut off aid to sanctuary cities that harbor illegal aliens?

I think in Illinois a state representative from a Chicago district introduced a bill to provide illegal imigrants with driver's licenses.

Isn't that a bit of a snub of fedeal law?

If the federal government is going to cut off funding - doesn't it have to be even handed, fair and across the board for all things?

If they were going to cut off funding for Wyoming for violating one federal law - wouldn't they also have to cut off funding to the Presdient's homestate of Ilinois for violating immigration law, and California too for that matter...
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:17 PM   #32
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Sheriffs are irrelevant. The only people that matter are Congress and SCOTUS.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:26 PM   #33
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While I don't agree with many of Bill Clinton's politics, I will admit that he's probably one of the savviest politicians that this country has seen since FDR. If he's telling the Democrat Party that gun control is a political minefield, they'd do well to heed his warning.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:59 PM   #34
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If Obama gets an AWB passed, it will be the last thing he gets passed while he's president.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:16 PM   #35
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If Obama gets an AWB passed, it will be the last thing he gets passed while he's president.
It could be the end for his agenda even if he doesn't get it passed. Even if Obama was able to strongarm all of the Congressional Democrats into voting for an AWB, the Republicans still hold the house and could stop it there. Such votes, however, would probably condemn many House and Senate Democrats to lose in the upcoming mid-term elections and give the Republicans a majority in both houses. By pushing too hard for gun control, Obama could very well turn himself into a lame duck.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:18 PM   #36
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If Obama gets an AWB passed, it will be the last thing he gets passed while he's president.
They said that about the ACA as well.

Don't underestimate the short memory and apathy of the average voter.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:22 PM   #37
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webleymkv
By pushing too hard for gun control, Obama could very well turn himself into a lame duck.
This being the one reason that part of me hopes he does... caveat being that this theory would actually play out. Hard to say since...


We can never...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
...underestimate the short memory....
ignorance

Quote:
...and apathy of the average voter.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:42 PM   #38
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The presidents political career is limited to the next 4 years and he's done... Those who support the AWB may want to have longer careers and outside of a couple of insane states going for the AWB may be a career ender.

Certainly there will be a push and there will be a fight and I expect every underhanded. low and vile anti tactic will be used. I also believe that the 2A is not a right or a left issue for most people. Its a either you believe in the 2A or you don't issue. Either your for us or against us kind of thing and very personal. I believe the administration will find that this is one issue that cant be handled like the other agendas they have followed. I think that lesson will be learned at considerable cost and they wont learn it quickly nor easily.. It will be a "The Emperors new clothes" kind of thing.. Make no mistake this is no easy fight for our side but this is different.
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Old January 22, 2013, 03:25 PM   #39
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Obama and the anti gun democrats are banking on the fact that the electorate has changed enough to give them a majority of support with respect to gun control, something Clinton didn't have. There are more members of minority classes now, but it seems unclear as to how dedicated those people are to gun control. I guess we're about to find out, and probably pretty soon.

It seems that there's evidence of a strategy to paint ALL republicans as being radical supporters of the "EVIL" NRA, in hopes to divide and conquer the Republican party and scare some of the more moderate Republicans into supporting more gun control to avoid being linked to the NRA. Will that work? It has certainly worked in the past on Republicans such as Olympia Snow and Susan Collins.
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Old January 22, 2013, 04:09 PM   #40
Webleymkv
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Quote:
Quote:
If Obama gets an AWB passed, it will be the last thing he gets passed while he's president.

They said that about the ACA as well.
To be fair, the President's party lost control of the House and their margin of majority in the Senate shrunk in the 2010 midterm election. Also, while many people try to paint the 2012 election as a landslide victory for the President, one must remember both that Mitt Romney was fairly weak on some hot-button issues (he signed both Romney Care and a state AWB in MA) and even still the President only managed to take 51.02% of the popular vote. So, while the President was able to survive the fallout of the ACA, he and his party certainly didn't come out unscathed.
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Old January 22, 2013, 05:56 PM   #41
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good point webley mkv
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Old January 22, 2013, 06:39 PM   #42
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It has certainly worked in the past on Republicans such as Olympia Snow and Susan Collins.
I wouldn't overestimate the amount that Senators care about the opinions of people outside their states. Both Sen. Collins and Snow enjoyed massive bipartisan support in ME in no small part because of their ability to cross party lines. They both did a pretty good job of voting the way most of their constituents wanted them to, and neither of them ever had a serious opponent as a result. Out-of-state republicans might occasionally be upset by the way our Senators vote, but who cares? They can't vote here.
Making the party bosses or national media mad might cost you some money, but making you constituents mad often enough is what costs you elections.

And, hopefully, most senators/representatives will be aware of that. There are lots of rural democrats who's constituents will not vote for them if they are part of an new AWB. The party leadership be all for a ban, but they're not the people that decide who gets elected.
And there are still more rural/suburban districts in the US than urban. I know around here the republican/democrat split is primarily about environmental and labor issues, gun control issues rarely come up, and there are about as many democrats with the NRA endorsement as republicans.

So, I tend to agree with all of you. Right now there's a lot of hand wringing and chest beating, but when it comes down to a real vote on a real ban I just don't see anything happening.

Universal background checks on the other hand, and the increased mental health reporting are probably on the way.
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Old January 22, 2013, 09:00 PM   #43
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Nra life membership discounted

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1251281/


I HOPE I POSTED THIS IN THE PROPER PLACE.

SEVERAL YEARS AGO I GOT A FLIER FROM THE NRA FOR A DISCOUNTED MEMBERSHIP SINCE I AM A LIFE MEMBER.
RECENTLY I BECAME INTERESTED IN GETTING A LIFE MEMBERSHIP FOR MY GRANDSON.
THE ABOVE LINK IS WHAT I FOUND.
WANTED TO PASS THE INFO ON.

HAVE A GREAT DAY,
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Old January 22, 2013, 09:35 PM   #44
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Still the fight and opposition must continue today, in the weeks to come and even if we win. Feinstien put forth her AWB today. I wrote my Senators stating that they oppose it. As each bill come up I will do this as we all should. Never stop, never give up.
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Old January 22, 2013, 10:09 PM   #45
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Quote:
And, hopefully, most senators/representatives will be aware of that. There are lots of rural democrats who's constituents will not vote for them if they are part of an new AWB. The party leadership be all for a ban, but they're not the people that decide who gets elected.
+1. Although I generally steer clear of partisan debates, this particular factor may greatly affect upcoming political changes in TX. A number of analysts believe that the Republican supermajority in the state is weakening due to a combination of changing voter demographics, a primary process that favors candidates who veer further and further to the right, and the fact that voters increasingly have nobody else to blame for problems.

However, gun rights are VERY popular in this state across the entire voting spectrum, and I personally believe that an overly aggressive push for gun control by the national Democratic party leadership may bolster the Republican majority by motivating conservative voters and simultaneously alienating people who are sitting on the fence. I think this is particularly true of low-income rural residents, who I believe are growing increasingly impatient with a state legislature that continues to cut popular programs, but has given them little in return but promises of job growth that always seems to happen somewhere else. (Frankly, I believe that Bill Clinton understands this group very well, and they're largely who he's talking about.)
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Old January 23, 2013, 11:09 AM   #46
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One issue, I believe overlooked is the statements in the media inflaming the gun ban proponents..."come and get them"..."not til You pry it from My dead cold hands" "I'll reply one bullet at a time" etc. These statements are NOT doing the fight to repeal ban laws any good. It frightens the average person and lends credence that all gun owners are trigger happy maniacs.

Let's all be smarter than the opposition.
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Old January 24, 2013, 07:23 PM   #47
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Be a model gun owner.

I agree. Let's not give the enemy more ammunition. Calmer heads shall prevail.
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Old January 25, 2013, 04:54 PM   #48
hermannr
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As for foreign born, and the 2A....That can be a 2 edged sword. I am a naturalized foreign born citizen...the country I was born in has very strict gun control, and I take a very libertarian approach...what part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
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Old January 25, 2013, 10:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Nick S. View Post
I agree. Let's not give the enemy more ammunition. Calmer heads shall prevail.
On one hand I agree with Nick, we don't want to paint ourselves as irrational. On the other I wonder if we should bother to play this game their way. The Utah Sheriff's Association doesn't think we should. In spirit I lean toward the come take it rhetoric. Just not sure what will be more effective in the long run.

Link
http://www.kcsg.com/view/full_story/...=home_stories6

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Old January 25, 2013, 11:59 PM   #50
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My guess is I'm going to get it in the neck for this but, Is it time to start helping people understand that there really is only one act that I can think of that would turn a large number of strong, law abiding, citizens into people that might defy Law Enforcement perhaps even in armed way, and that is significant infringement of our second amendment rights?

This is the only thing I can think of that would crack this country open like a raw egg.

I worry that these people only listen to each other and have no earthly idea that they could spark a second civil war.

No I am not suggesting or endorsing this, not in any way shape or form.

But I'm not even sure what I'd do if they came to confiscate my guns, and I believe as strongly as it is possible to believe in the rule of law.
I'm on the mild end of the gun owner club so to speak.

Even if everyone on this forum meekly surrenders their firearms, (and we all know the odds of that) the number of people who resisted in an armed way would have to be in the tens of millions. Civil war,no, Revolutionary war would inevitably follow.

I've played this through in my mind every way I can think of and this is where them accomplishing their goals leads.

Keep in mind something else here, and you can blow me off if you like but I'm the guy you hire and pay thousands of dollars a month to find out where your organisation is right now, and if it continues on a certain path where it will end up.
When I was in Nursing I was always on the COR-0/incident teams because for whatever reason I always just knew what things were going to happen next while things were going wrong.
The Third man down in a multi-billion dollar bank made a major change in the new computer system they were designing that over time will cost at a minimum hundreds of thousands on my assuring him that it would cost him more not to implement the change. I don't say this to brag, heck it didn't end up making me a dime more in my paycheck. But so that you will perhaps take me seriously

Am I at this point predicting this as the outcome? No.
But these are,I assure you, the stakes of the game.
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