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Old January 21, 2013, 12:12 AM   #1
MTGreen
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9 mm powder choice for 124 grain bullet

I am just getting into hand loading and still waiting on my Dillon 550.

In looking at Speer #14, the muzzle velocity for 124 grain bullets seems low on the HS-6. I would like velocity to be above 1100. What powders can produce the higher velocity while minimizing volume issues?
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Old January 21, 2013, 09:30 AM   #2
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MTGreen,

Welcome to the forum.

I'll make your post into a new thread so you don't hijack this one by changing its topic.
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Old January 21, 2013, 09:48 AM   #3
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Power Pistol is a great high performance powder.

1100fps is on the upper end of Max published data.

Do not just jump right to the high end without working up your load. Just a reminder/tip.
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:34 AM   #4
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I'll add a comment that you need to note the barrel length being tested. 4" is the SAAMI standard 9 mm velocity test barrel length, but military ammo uses anywhere from 4.65" (118 mm) to 5.91" (150 mm) for 9 mm test barrels resulting in higher velocities. Shorter barrels will get less velocity.

HS-6, on Hodgdon's data site, keeps up with Power Pistol, but it takes a heavier charge weight, so it's less efficient and produces a bigger fireball, typically. It also doesn't run well at reduced pressures. Hodgdon shows a starting load of 6.4 grains getting 1131 fps from a 4" barrel with a 125 grain Sierra FMJ, seated to 1.090" COL (Sierra's spec) in a Winchester case with CCI 500 primer. This agrees well with the Sierra databook, which shows 6.3 grains of HS-6 giving 1100 fps, with the same COL, but with a Starline case and WSP primer. Sierra shows the same velocity for their 125 grain JHP seated to 1.075" COL.

125 grains and 124 grains are not significantly different and if your bullet length is the same. The Sierra FMJ is 0.581" long and their JHP is .554" long in QuickLOAD's database.
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Old January 21, 2013, 11:16 AM   #5
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I have HS-6 listed in Lymans 49th starting at 5.8g @949fps using Sierra 125g JHP, Federal brass, CCI spp and a 4" universal receiver OAL 1.075 and Max 6.6g @1080fps.

Hornady has it listed: 124g XTP, Hornady brass, Winchester spp, fired from a S&W Model 39 4" barrel starting HS-6 5.1g @900fps Max 5.9g @1050fps

As you can see there is a lot of "different" data out the even when the components and barrel length are similar.
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:27 PM   #6
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Yes, it's different. I'd also mention Ramshot True Blue as another spherical that breaks the 1100 fps barrier with 124 grain bullets.
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Old January 21, 2013, 11:02 PM   #7
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Thanks for the input. I like the data considerations that have been discussed. Speer #14 does not mention variable brass manufactures, or primer manufactures in its 9mm Luger data sheets, but cites Speer case and a CCI primer with a 4" barrel length.

I have Winchester brass and plan to use Winchester spp primers. I am looking at Speer bullets, just because it is the only data book I have right now. I have two other reloading books on order, but have not order a second data book.

I am still looking for info on volume issues with regard to overcharging.

Power pistol is in the velocity range I am looking for, with .8 grains between minimum and max loads according to Speer on a 124 garin bullet (5-6-6.4).

I am also looking at Unique. Its minimum load is closer to my velocity target, and its maximum at 1180 is closer to the 1200 range I would like to get to with snother powder when I have more experience. Unique's minimum and maximum charge is seperated by .6 grains (5.2-5.8)

Even so, this data relates to weight, not volume. I plan to weigh the first 5 loads then every 5th load if the charge is within and acceptable range. (start charge to +.1grain?)

I will be firing a Glock 17.
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Old January 21, 2013, 11:18 PM   #8
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125gr jacketed bullet?

6.5gr Power pistol, or 5.0-5.2gr of GreenDot will get you there.....as will 8.2 gr of BlueDot, but you wanted a low volume load.....

Start loads were 6.0, 5.0 and 8.2 on those......
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Old January 22, 2013, 10:43 AM   #9
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MT Green,

I note the Speer #14 uses a COL of 1.135" rather than the 1.090" used by Hornady. This is because the shape is more pointy so it can feed well further out. But that 0.045" difference can reduce pressure enough to cost you almost 60 fps in QuickLOAD. That may account for the difference in data you are seeing. It's worth keeping in mind that loads need to be duplicated in every detail to be a precise match. Alliant's advice is to reduce any maximum rifle load by 10% and any maximum handgun load by 15% when changes are made and work the load back up. I think 5% is enough for a primer make change or a powder lot change or a case change in isolation, but as soon as you change more than one of these factors or you chang bullet make (even at same weight), or you change seating depth, you need to buy into the full reduction and work up.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:47 PM   #10
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I can easily make 1,100 FPS with 125 grain slugs...but I'm running cast lead, which is a bit easier to push & fling from the barrel. 4.5 grains of Universal does the trick, and I'll bet it'll get you over that bar with jacketed slugs of the same weight also.
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Old January 23, 2013, 04:04 PM   #11
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I use Unique for 124g 9mm.

I get almost 1400fps, from my 9mm AR.

Here is my chrony data from my own excel sheet! Still needs work, but it works!

Use data at your own risk.

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Old January 23, 2013, 10:21 PM   #12
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Donkee,
Thanks for the Data. What 9mm are you shooting?
4.7g is below the starting charge in Speer #14 (5.2g).
What is the starting charge and max chage with your data set shooting the IMI FMJ?
Do you plan to bring your charge of 4.7 up?
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Old January 23, 2013, 11:05 PM   #13
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Cast lead vs. Jacked

Sevens,
Is velocity the reason you shoot cast lead? What are some of the pros and cons of cast lead over a jacketed bullet?
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Old January 23, 2013, 11:14 PM   #14
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My understanding is that jacketed bullets are better suited for a 9mm.
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Old January 23, 2013, 11:39 PM   #15
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I like Universal in 9mm....I run 4.5 grains behind a 124 grain Berry's bullet.
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Old January 24, 2013, 04:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Sevens,
Is velocity the reason you shoot cast lead? What are some of the pros and cons of cast lead over a jacketed bullet?
No, not velocity. That velocity helps me to knock down a steel plate with regularity, but I shoot cast lead because of the economy of it.

Pro: much cheaper, and in my application--they simply shoot very well
Con: smoky, certainly a bit dirtier for cleanup, typically are banned on indoor ranges

Cast lead isn't for everyone and I don't think it's the best choice for beginning handloaders...and I only use them in assorted applications; I don't use them everywhere. But where I do use them, they sure work well for me.
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Old January 24, 2013, 07:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Donkee,
Thanks for the Data. What 9mm are you shooting?
4.7g is below the starting charge in Speer #14 (5.2g).
What is the starting charge and max chage with your data set shooting the IMI FMJ?
Do you plan to bring your charge of 4.7 up?
I'm leaving it as is. I get plenty of punch for knocking down steel and accuracy is really good with the CZ-75 and Hi-Power.

Shooting these in the UZI and 9mm AR they do hit close to 1400fps and are very accurate.

The IMI bullets were surplus pulls from GIBRASS years ago. I only have a few hundred of them left but I did find the load shot the same with some Magtech FMJ and Winchester FMJ that I got thousands's of before the first Obama rush. Those loads would have been worked up from the Lyman manual. I just kept what gave me the best results a couple years before I got a chrony. Once I got that I figured I would clock all my working loads to see what they are doing.
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