The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 20, 2013, 01:59 AM   #1
freenokia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2011
Posts: 138
Where do most inexperienced shooters miss when they shoot fast?

Say a right handed shooter has a gun pointed at you. Which way would give you the best chance of them missing if you made a break for cover?
freenokia is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 02:12 AM   #2
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 1,702
For most people;

You can move your arm naturally to the inside. That means for a right handed shooter you would move to your left, that would force him to turn more to track you.
__________________
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 08:48 AM   #3
MTSCMike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2011
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 164
Most right handers miss low and left when they try to shoot too fast. I would go to my left (their right) if I had a choice.
__________________
IDPA Member A00640
Founding Charter Member - Middle Tennessee Shooter's Club
MTSCMike is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 10:30 AM   #4
Blue Duck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 15, 2006
Posts: 240
Generally low, grips, and long or short triggers, may enter into it also regarding left and right. At any rate jerking the trigger, or flinching will send a bullet somewhere else.

i have seen people almost seem to want to fall down when getting an unexpected click instead of a bang. What is also interesting is I have seen even some pretty good shots do the same thing, sorta, when getting a click instead of a bang. According to the late Jeff Cooper, that might be a post ignition push. He might have been on to something there.

Still yet, the shooters that impress me the most are the ones that remain rock solid after a failure to fire.
Blue Duck is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 10:58 AM   #5
stephen426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 2,885
I think it is unwise to guess at an attacker's skill level. What distance are you from the attacker? What is the distance to cover? What are your physical abilities? What is the attackers build? What weapons do you have on you? What is your level of training and skill? What is the attacker's demeanor? Is the attacker actively shooting at other people already?

Without assessing all of those variables, I think it is unwise to offer any advice. If an attacker has you at gun point, he already has the edge on you. All it takes for them to shoot you is moving their finger while you have to make it all the way to cover. Any sudden movements may cause him to simply react and shoot you.

If I was in a situations where someone pulled a gun on me, I would comply as much as possible until I had an opportunity to react. It is better to seem scared and let them try to relax as much as possible. It is much better to replace any material possession than to get shot and possible killed or handicapped. If you feel the attacker is going to shoot you no matter what, then fight like hell. If the attacker makes a mistake and gets distracted, then you can consider a counter attack or draw your own weapon. If you draw your own weapon, you better be ready to use it. Do not stop firing until the attacker is incapacitated or drops their weapon.

If you have a decent level of training and feel comfortable in your skills, you could consider counter attacking your attacker if you are close enough. The most important thing is get get out of the line of fire and try to control the weapon. There is no such thing as a fair fight so go for the eyes, groin, throat, knees, whatever is most vulnerable. Once the attack stops, do NOT stop attacking until the attacker is incapacitated or you have secured their weapon.

I honestly feel that carrying a weapon without any hand to hand combat training puts you at a serious disadvantage. Practice often and at full speed if possible. Even then you really need to think before you act!
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!
stephen426 is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 01:24 PM   #6
locnload
Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2010
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 94
I agree with Nanuk based on my own consideration of the issue. I find it easier to track a moving target left than I do if it is moving to my right. I expect that is true for most. If I am shooting an IDPA stage with targets of equal or near equal distance and I have the option I will shoot right to left every time. I would not for a minute try to evaluate an attackers skill level or intent, just ty to get off the X and hope he is an average right handed shooter. Try it on the range next chance, see if you don't feel kind of clumsy moving to your outside.
locnload is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 05:27 PM   #7
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Where do most inexperienced shooters miss when they shoot fast?
They miss where they aim. Simple no?

Where to move.. dang if I know. Might be best to just stand still.

Deaf
__________________
"The government has confiscated all of our rights and is selling them back to us in the form of permits."
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 10:34 PM   #8
Bob Wright
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 1,897
I have observed yahoos at the local range shoot fast in their drills from the classes they've taken.

I see bullet strikes in the ceiling tiles and on the floor in front of them. Sometimes they hit paper. Occassionally they will take out a light fixture, dropping a flourescent tube to the floor.

Spectacular. But they look good doing the drill.

Bob Wright
Bob Wright is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 10:50 PM   #9
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,422
From what I see, misses from new shooters tend to be low in elevation.

Windage errors are a little more difficult to predict. I'd say that it's more common for the error to trend away from the strong side.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 01:36 AM   #10
jason_iowa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Posts: 686
To many unknowns to know. If someone has the drop on you and you're alone I would not make any sudden movements. Give them what they want. Unless all they want is to kill you which is probably not the case. If all they want is your watch and money give it up. I keep the bulk of my money in a money clip. Rarely used stuff like proof of insurance, registrations for my vehicles and like 20 bucks in my wallet. I only own a couple watches that would bother me to lose and I rarely wear them.

Don't count on Mr. Gangbanger to be inexperienced either. A wanna be like most of em that we have around here you may get away.
jason_iowa is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 01:44 AM   #11
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
most miss high and don't correct(that is why sometimes you hear a story about a cop(s) missing so much. aim center mass
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 08:39 AM   #12
sfmedic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2012
Location: Currently Erbil, Iraq
Posts: 106
Hmmmmmmm

I bet there is no correct answer to this question :-) way too many variables. My guess (assuming poor trigger control) is low right misses. Im going to have to get some new shooter to be my guinea pig on this one (this ought to be fun)


I can tell you where shooters hit in a gunfight (statistically) They shoot where they are looking - One of the best example I can come up with is the FBI shootout in Miami lots of forearm and handgun wounds and a chest wound that was inflicted while holding his gun at chest level.

during a gunfight eyes goes to the opponents gun and the rounds follow instinctively when under stress
sfmedic is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 08:53 AM   #13
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,136
I have no idea where most shooters miss, but I can tell you from my own experience point shooting (rapidly, not using sights) that I tend to miss HIGH, especially with a snubby revolver. I practice aiming for belt level if I want to hit chest high (6 shots in 1-2 seconds).
spacecoast is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 09:06 AM   #14
sambuh
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 18, 2013
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecoast View Post
I have no idea where most shooters miss, but I can tell you from my own experience point shooting (rapidly, not using sights) that I tend to miss HIGH, especially with a snubby revolver. I practice aiming for belt level if I want to hit chest high (6 shots in 1-2 seconds).
I had a similar experience. With my pistol low and left, with a revolver always missing high. The trigger pull is similar as well...

If a guy aims a gun at me, I'm not sure I'm moving anywhere. I'm going to comply to the point where I feel like it's useless. Then, as a last resort, I will double back flip and jump over him, landing behind him with out him knowing. Then he will be all " What in the world" and when he turns around to fire he will only then notice that when I jumped over him I also disassembled his pistol as well. That's just me though...
sambuh is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 12:54 PM   #15
TheNocturnus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,093
I would just suggest to draw, shoot and seek the nearest cover rather than worry about his aim.
__________________
My EDC:
Gun
Wallet
Brain (Use this one the most)
TheNocturnus is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 04:23 PM   #16
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 561
Facing a right handed shooter...I would prefer to move to my right --- assuming the shooter is in a isosceles stance with with his left foot slightly forward --- which would make it easier for the shooter to turn his shoulders from left to right. When training... you'll see it's easier for a right handed shooter, to shoot a rack of plates from left to right. That's why it's important for the right handed shooter to also train shooting from right to left.

Also...a right handed shooter --- mostly --- uses his right eye. It's easier for the right eye, to follow a target from left to right, because the firearm will partially block his right shooting eye --- if he follows and leads the target from right to left.

Last edited by Erno86; January 21, 2013 at 05:14 PM.
Erno86 is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 10:01 PM   #17
SgtLumpy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2013
Posts: 779
I think we may be overlooking something here. A "shooter" pointing his pistol at us is very likely NOT a guy aiming, isoceles or any other target oriented stance/hold. He IS very likely a guy committing a crime, pointing a gun in our general direction, NOT aiming or getting a sight picture at all.

My training suggests - make yourself small, in a different space, moving.

I suggest it's pretty darn hard to armchair pre-plan.


Sgt Lumpy - n0eq
SgtLumpy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10730 seconds with 9 queries