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Old January 16, 2013, 10:19 PM   #1
alex0535
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.17 Winchester Super Magnum rifles

With SHOT show going on i'm sure that there are going to be a variety of new rifles chambered in the new .17 wsm so I thought id make a thread to talk about them.

Out of the gate there is the Savage B.Mag. read that it is less than 4.5lbs, fed by a flush rotary magazine. Synthetic stock. Msrp of $350. It reminds me of the ruger 77/22 and its variants but at a much more affordable price tag.

Here is a Savage rep talking about the B.MAG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=gdJLUGe06DQ#!

I think savage will sell a lot of these. I know I wouldn't mind having one.

Last edited by alex0535; January 17, 2013 at 06:54 PM.
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Old January 17, 2013, 08:05 AM   #2
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I've got a .17 Mach 2 and love it but haven't been able to talk myself into an HMR, but this new .17 seems like a winner.
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:31 AM   #3
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I have a .17 hmr and love it, I use it for squirrels and groundhogs, however as soon as rifles become available for the .17 wsm I intend on buying one for my primary groundhog gun.
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Old January 17, 2013, 11:00 AM   #4
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FWIW, there was a Favorite-type falling block single-shot rifle used during the ammo testing, that'd be my cup of tea - "IF" I wanted a .17cal.



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Old January 17, 2013, 12:12 PM   #5
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I have not read what the B.C. is for the Winchester 20 Gr bullet but I used 0.180 and 2,000 ft/sec MV for the .172 Cal bullet with the PBL set at 1.5 inches.. With the scope 1.5 In above the bore I got the followning from my Ballistics Calculator: at 50 Yds -0.17, at 100 Yds +0.02, at 150 Yds -1.10 , at 200 Yds -3.82, at 250 Yds -8.38 inches. Most all of my shooting is at prairie dogs . So at 200 Yds a standing up shot the hold would be on the center of the head with the cross hairs showing a little day light when they are laying down. When I get a rifle and know the 20 Gr bullet B.C. and shoot some bullets over a Crony I know what the MV ft/sec average is from my rifle . I then will use the actual data and see what the bullet path my be when the rifle is sited in at 1/2 inch high at 100 yards. I have ben using the 17 HM2, 17 HMR rifles and will be getting a 17 Hornet rifle , but that .17 Win Super Mag looks good to me. There times when I dont get around to reloading ammo for CF rifles.
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Old January 17, 2013, 03:18 PM   #6
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I was excited to hear of a new rimfire coming out this year but kinda disappointed to find out it was another .17 even though it was much faster than the HMR. Is savage the only company making rifles for it right now? Single shot would be cool. I have a scoped single shot 17HMR Rossi thats a super accurate little squirrel killer, and one racoon. Wonder how long it will be before nikon comes out with a BDC scope for it.

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Old January 17, 2013, 05:25 PM   #7
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I saw that single shot and I like it too.

As to the ballistics, this is a good comparison to how the .17 WSM compares to other rimfires and the .22 hornet center-fire. The ballistics look awesome by
the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uno5EUyhH3c

I am also a big fan of the .17 HMR, its my favorite caliber for shooting squirrels.

Last edited by alex0535; January 17, 2013 at 06:35 PM.
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Old January 17, 2013, 06:29 PM   #8
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Seems cool and all, I think the price is the only advantage, really. Then again, you do have to buy a new rifle. They claim that it would drop like 3 inches at 200 yards with a 100 yd zero, while in some loadings the .17 hornet drops as much as 13. A slower bullet with the same weight drops less apparently.

With the same 20 grain loading at 3,500fps, the .17 hornet blows it out of the park, but again, the price is a factor too, I guess. What I would like to see is possibly a .22 version, which I don't think exists, but I'm sure they'll come out with it. I want there to be a new "king" of rimfire above the .22wmr (which I love) and if they would beef up the cartridge, I would be a happy camper.

I'd be delighted to see a 40 grain at mid 2000's fps. That would be a hell of a cartridge, I think. Can a .17WSM rifle chamber .17HMR? It appears to be the same in case dimension, and the Winchester Super Magnum designation implies it. All the more reason to make a .22 version!

Last edited by GunXpatriot; January 17, 2013 at 06:40 PM.
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Old January 17, 2013, 06:40 PM   #9
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No it won't be able to chamber it. The .17 WSM is based off a 27 caliber nail gun driver cartridge where the .17 HMR is based off of a .22 magnum. The 17 WSM has a larger case capacity and is wider.

They say it will cost around $0.30 a round.
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Old January 17, 2013, 06:54 PM   #10
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Thanks for that info Alex, I guess that's a pretty interesting design.

This kinda reminds of a .17 caliber version of the 5.7x28mm. Nearly identical specs, but smaller caliber. Was comparing to the 4.6x30 as well, but no real similarities there... The case does seem thinner than the others as well.

Even still... New, armor piercing PDW cartridge?

Then again, I think a lot of people would be unhappy with it, considering it's rimfire.
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Old January 17, 2013, 07:20 PM   #11
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One big difference from the 5.7x28mm will be the price of the round. But I can see the similarities in ballistics.

I think a lot of people will be happy with it as a rimfire. Like you said though I anticipate a .22 WSM at some point, it won't get as much velocity as the .17 but it will be hotter than a .22 magnum.

As far as armor piercing PDW goes, if this caliber comes out in a full metal jacket it would probably be more applicable to that than the v-max. But to an unarmored threat, a 20-25 grain v-max bullet hitting at 2600-3000fps is going to produce serious internal injury. Negligible recoil to the shooter helping ensure that bullet after bullet hits its target. I guess another question will be who will develop the first semi automatic for it.
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Old January 17, 2013, 07:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
A slower bullet with the same weight drops less apparently.
Not unless the Law of Gravity has been repealed. Last I checked, that was still in effect, but let me check. Yup, still works.
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Old January 17, 2013, 09:08 PM   #13
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Haha yeah, I'm referring to the statement made here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQZ32vJImIg @2:00

I was thinking he was talking about the .17 Hornet, because I remembered he was talking about the .17 calibers, so I assumed it was the .17. But yeah, my mistake.
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Old January 18, 2013, 01:57 AM   #14
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I'm glad Savage is trying something a little different, but that B-Mag has one of the ugliest trigger guards I've ever seen, and gets topped off with a fairly homely bolt as well...
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Old January 18, 2013, 02:10 AM   #15
alex0535
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Now that you say it, the B.mag trigger guard is rather boxy, and the bolt handle isn't the best looking either. There are things I do like about it though, like the flush box magazine and that it weighs less than 4.5lbs.

I'm also sort of curious as to how the stock attaches to the receiver. They managed to hide the screws. Overall it make the bottom of the rifle very flush, it should be a pretty comfortable rifle to hold, walk around with, and shoot.
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Old January 18, 2013, 09:55 AM   #16
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While walnut and nice finishes are nice the new .17 needs to start well and it just ain't gonna do that if it's priced hundreds more than current HMR guns or the same as .17 centerfire guns. It had to start with a completely new design, plastic and a reasonable price compromise. Savage did that. Yes, it's ugly. No mistake there. But the price is right, the weight is right, the action is right. What a great lightweight truck gun it will make.

Never fear all you walnut fans. I'm sure Ruger will have a model coming out soon, so will CZ. Both will be priced a couple hundred more. Heck, Savage will probably start offering a laminated or wood one before long. But looks aside the Savage is the perfect place for this new rimfire to start.
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Old January 19, 2013, 10:38 AM   #17
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17 Winchester Super Magnum rifles

I like it!
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Old January 19, 2013, 04:12 PM   #18
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I believe Im gonna hold out for a .22wsm. Id say its coming
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Old January 19, 2013, 09:20 PM   #19
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Noise?

The main reason I switched to using the 17 HMR for prairie dogs over the .223 is lack of noise, allowing me to shoot without hearing protection, and lack of recoil, allowing me to see all my hits. I had to reduce my maximum range from 300 yards to 175 though.

I wonder if the new 17 WSM will still be quiet enough to shoot without hearing protection. If so, and if it's just as accurate as the 17 HMR, I'm all over it, once CZ chambers a rifle in it.

I also wonder if they will make autoloaders for it, or if it will have the same problems that the 17 HMR has with autoloaders.

Exciting stuff for us varmint shooters!
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Old January 20, 2013, 11:02 AM   #20
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I wonder if the new 17 WSM will still be quiet enough to shoot without hearing protection.
IMO, the 17 HMR is already too loud to shoot without protection. Regardless, with more case capacity, higher pressure and the same bore size, the WSM will be louder than the HMR. Probably a lot louder.

Quote:
I also wonder if they will make autoloaders for it, or if it will have the same problems that the 17 HMR has with autoloaders.
The WSM will have the same problems with blowback semis the HMR did, only more so. If any autoloaders are developed, they will have to do something expensive to keep the breech locked long enough to let the bullet out of the barrel before the action opens.
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Old January 20, 2013, 10:29 PM   #21
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What was the problem exactly? Well I mean, why is it a problem specifically with those rounds?
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Old January 21, 2013, 08:32 AM   #22
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i cant wait for mine to come in i hope there is a wood grain stock option.
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Old January 21, 2013, 11:12 AM   #23
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What was the problem exactly? Well I mean, why is it a problem specifically with those rounds [in semiautos]?
Because of the tiny 17 caliber bore, the pressure drops very slowly. This means the pressure curve remains high until the bullet leaves the barrel. A blowback (read inexpensive) action relies on springs and inertia to keep the action closed. Sometimes the action will open and begin extracting the case while the bullet is still in the barrel. The unsupported brass isn't strong enough to contain the pressure and KABOOM! the brass ruptures, spewing brass fragments and lots of hot gasses, often hard enough to blow the magazine to pieces.

This was a problem with 17 HMRs. Remington tried it and took the gun off the market. Magnum Research tried it and took the gun off the market. Ruger wouldn't even touch it.

The 17 WSM has more capacity and runs higher pressures so it would be even worse. If anyone builds a 17 WSM semiauto, it will have to have some means of delaying the action opening until the pressure has dropped. This is certainly possible, but will be more expensive than a simple blowback.
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:45 PM   #24
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17 hmr auto.

VOLQUARTSEN custom makes 17hmr semi autos .
www.volquartsen.com
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:59 PM   #25
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Indeed they do, but they utilize some sort of counterweight system attached to the bolt which I assume delays the blowback long enough for the bullet to get out of the barrel. It as a rifle built around the 17 HMR cartridge instead of a rifle adapted to the 17 hmr cartridge.

If there will be an autoloader on the market for .17 WSM, this design might be the solution they are looking for. I bet volquartsen owns the patent, and this might slow down and constrict who makes them. Volquartsen will want to come out with the first one before they let anyone else do it.
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