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Old January 16, 2013, 09:19 PM   #226
wayneinFL
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This wont/cant work if just Glock does this. The NYPD would just switch to Smith or SIG. The industry needs to have a sitdown and agree they are ALL going to do it. At least the guys popular with the LE Community like Glock, SIG, Smith, Colt etc.
Imagine all police officers in New York carrying Hi-Points.
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Old January 16, 2013, 10:13 PM   #227
Bubsy
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(Sorry I can't figure out how to "quote" the way others have)

Carguychris said

"Apparently, you're allowed to load more than 7 rounds when you're on the premises of an organized shooting range, but you must be using an 8-10rd magazine when you do it."


So with my NYC Residence/ Premises Permit, I'm able to shoot at a pistol range with a magazine holding 10 rounds but, if I ever have to actually use my gun in my home in self defense, I'm only allowed to load 7 rounds?
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Old January 16, 2013, 10:30 PM   #228
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Imagine all police officers in New York carrying Hi-Points.
They will need bigger holsters.
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Old January 17, 2013, 02:25 AM   #229
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Bubsy,

The premise of the bill doesn't make sense after logical scrutiny. Do you think that all the details would not contradict themselves?
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Old January 17, 2013, 04:30 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Ultra12
I live in NYC and our rifles are restricted to 5 rounds in a mag. Pistols are 10. I wanted a lever action marlin 39 in 22 lr but I can't have it because its over 5 rounds. So I had to buy 45-70 marlin because the mag will only fit 5. If u have a ruger 10-22 and bought an aftermarket stock u are most likely now own a assault rifle. My 1911 came with 3 mags 8, 7 and 7 rounds. But now if I want a 9 mm I probably will never be able to buy if because it can fit 15-19 rounds. My tikka in 223 is waiting for a chassis system that comes with a pistol grip and that will make it an illegal assault rifle. My 1941 mosin nagant can be an assault rifle because it can have a bayonet. Living in nYc I came in terms with such stringent gun laws. I didnt think but can get worse but now I am better of owning only Revolvers. If they find u have 8 rounds in stead of 7 it's a misdemeanor. And if u have misdemeanor so now u will lose all ur gun rights. U got a red light ticket or a speeding ticket? Now wen u renew and they run a background check u r no longer deemed as a law abiding citizens and will have ur rights to own a gun taken away.
you made some really good points that I didn't even think about. Now a Mosin Nagant can be considered an "Assault Weapon/Rifle" -- Ridiculous.

NY is really getting out of hand, almost like NJ or CA. I've always wanted to live in NYC or CA, but the draconian gun laws you have there (among others) are just plain insane. Maybe most people don't care and wouldn't know what they're missing, but to those of us who are "enlightened" it is a big deal.
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Old January 17, 2013, 06:08 AM   #231
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Quote:
Quote:
11 GOP turncoats including the GOP leader in the Senate.
What makes them turncoats? Did they run on a pro gun platform?
You did look at the list, right? Are we still playing the game that we can't say who the enemy is? Living at ground zero for draconian gun laws I am getting a little tired of being told it is wrong to point out who is behind every attack on my gun rights...
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Old January 17, 2013, 07:52 AM   #232
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Birddog, from what I've read of the law so far it doesn't appear to have any effect on revolvers, it is very specifically aimed at detachable magazines. I am no lawyer though so you may want to consult someone better versed in legalese.
Stu,

Thanks for the input. I've read the legislation twice now. It is VERY fuzzy. It doesn't just specify detachable magazine. I don't have it in front of me now, but it basically says "magazine, drum, other feeding device..etc". I haven't gotten one response from anyone who KNOWS, including the State Police, if revolvers are affected. Their own list, on the State Police website admits that the list is incomplete.

The law seems to focus on 'assault weapons', but doesn't specifity if the magazine rules apply to pistols and there's nothing at ALL anywhere mentioning revolvers, whether they're included or excluded from the capacity regulations.

In the meantime, I'm erring on the side of caution and not buying a 9-shot revolver.

Joel

Last edited by Tom Servo; January 17, 2013 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Language
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Old January 17, 2013, 08:42 AM   #233
Willie Sutton
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M1 Garand seems an obvious loser.

Sad.


Willie


.
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Old January 17, 2013, 08:51 AM   #234
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while everything / body is a loser in this situation, they do make a 5 round spring clip for hunting in states where capacity is limited while hunting, so those with those Garands, still have an option... besides I think they are exempt anyway, because of their age / history ???

what bothers me ( most ) is the incorrect termonolgy used, the word "bullets" used in the place of cartridges, clips ( like the Garand uses ) used in place of magazines... they have gone & gotten everybody corn fused, to where even those that are supposed to enforce the new regs don't know what to do... which I guess is better for those who don't want more restrictions, as everything will need to be redefined & clairifyed... & in essence make "them" look like even bigger idiots for not knowing what even they want to ban...
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Old January 17, 2013, 09:40 AM   #235
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So with my NYC Residence/ Premises Permit, I'm able to shoot at a pistol range with a magazine holding 10 rounds but, if I ever have to actually use my gun in my home in self defense, I'm only allowed to load 7 rounds?
As I read it, yes, although IANAL.
Quote:
Now a Mosin Nagant can be considered an "Assault Weapon/Rifle" -- Ridiculous.
I believe this is incorrect; as stu925 pointed out in post #222, bolt-action firearms are specifically exempted.

Also, it's worth pointing out that the act does not seem to restrict the mere ability to accept a bayonet; it restricts bayonet mounts. This is significant because certain military firearms such as the Mosin Nagant do not have a separate bayonet mount; the bayonet fits around the front sight.
Quote:
...there's nothing at ALL anywhere mentioning revolvers, whether they're included or excluded from the capacity regulations... I'm erring on the side of caution and not buying a 9-shot revolver.
Revolvers are the subject of a lengthy discussion in another thread in L&CR. In my non-lawyerly opinion, the definition of "large capacity ammunition feeding device" is vague enough that it may eventually encompass 8-10 shot revolvers, but it's unclear whether they'll be regulated in the short term.
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:34 AM   #236
AlexI
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Has anybody considered non-detachable rifle magazines of 8-10 rounds capacity (SKS, pistol caliber levers)? These obviously don't fall under the new assault weapons definition as they don't have detachable magazines.
And I guess you can't load them with more than 7 rounds now.
But does it mean owners of such rifles will not be able to sell them inside the state anymore? Are they basically grandfathered, just like 10 round magazines?

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Old January 17, 2013, 10:47 AM   #237
carguychris
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Has anybody considered non-detachable rifle magazines of 8-10 rounds capacity (SKS, pistol caliber levers)? These obviously don't fall under the new assault weapons definition as they don't have detachable magazines.
This is true in theory, although in practice, most all SKS (and many Mini-14) variants have features that would otherwise qualify them as assault weapons.

OTOH you're absolutely right about lever rifles; IMHO the product planners at Mossberg may be on to something with the 464 SPX, although I suggest that they also offer a .44Mag or .45 Colt version to allow the use of a 7rd magazine tube.

http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifl...-464-spx/41026
Quote:
And I guess you can't load them with more than 7 rounds now.
Correct.
Quote:
But does it mean owners of such rifles will not be able to sell them inside the state anymore?
The law seems to exempt lever rifles.
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:58 AM   #238
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Honestly folks, what do you think is our chances of actually winning a lawsuit in the SCOTUS? There are some very clear violations of civil rights from what I can tell especially if you take into account the cases presented by Alan Gura and the Heller case.

In the event that we DO win this case and the SCOUTUS sides with the 2A plaintiff's, how do you think this will affect future attempts to implement gun control?
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:59 AM   #239
AlexI
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How could SKS be possibly considered an assault weapon, no matter what the features? This is from the text of the bill: "(A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS....". A detachable magazine is obviously a must criteria.

My question is, assuming that it is NOT an assault weapon, would it be subject to regulation same as a separate 10rd magazine? I mean that you can continue possessing it but can't sell/transfer it to anybody in the state. This is what the law says about 10rd magazines, or do I misunderstand?

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Old January 17, 2013, 11:30 AM   #240
carguychris
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How could SKS be possibly considered an assault weapon, no matter what the features? This is from the text of the bill: "(A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS....". A detachable magazine is obviously a must criteria.
You're right, my bad.
Quote:
My question is... would it be subject to regulation same as a separate 10rd magazine? I mean that you can continue possessing it but can't sell/transfer it to anybody in the state. This is what the law says about 10rd magazines, or do I misunderstand?
I believe that I understand your question correctly now. In my humble non-lawyerly opinion, yes, it seems to me that this provision could conceivably apply to the rifle itself. The definition of "large capacity ammunition feeding device" does not obviously exempt a magazine that is integral with the firearm!

There is one conceivable exemption.

The definition specifically exempts an ammunition feeding device that is a "curio or relic" (OR, not AND), but the act does not use the familiar federal definition of a C&R firearm- it creates its own definition.
Quote:
A feeding device that is a curio or relic is defined as a device that (i) was manufactured at least fifty years prior to the current date, (ii) is only capable of being used exclusively in a firearm, rifle, or shotgun that was manufactured at least fifty years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, (iii) is possessed by an individual who is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a firearm and (iv) is registered with the division of state police pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter, except such feeding devices transferred into the state may be registered at any time, provided they are registered within thirty days of their transfer into the state. Notwithstanding paragraph (h) of subdivision twenty-two of this section, such feeding devices may be transferred provided that such transfer shall be subject to the provisions of section 400.03 of this chapter including the check required to be conducted pursuant to such section.
(Emphasis mine)

I believe that this provision should allow an SKS or similar rifle with an integral 10rd mag to be brought into NY and legally transferred, but only if the individual rifle is over 50 years old. The problem is that the build dates of SKS rifles from some countries cannot be positively determined, or are too recent to allow legal transfer.
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Old January 17, 2013, 01:23 PM   #241
Strafer Gott
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Technical detail.

Consider Mossberg product MVP Predator. Bolt action is exempt. Uses G.I. magazines. Are 20-30 magazines for this bolt exempt?
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Old January 17, 2013, 01:28 PM   #242
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I don't believe so, as magazines have their own section.
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Old January 17, 2013, 03:06 PM   #243
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OK, confession, I didn't read the new law. I'm depending on those forum members who have made that effort (and a big thank you to them).

Does it contain any exemptions for police? For the Governor's bodyguards? Will the police be restricted to 7 shots, on or off duty?

The people in NY State should demand that the law apply to all. To everyone. Why would the Governor be so special as to have bodyguards armed with more than 7 shots (well, 8 with one in the chamber) if "there is no need for so many loaded rounds"?

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Old January 17, 2013, 09:42 PM   #244
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They are talking about amending it to expempt LEOs. If enough Republicans refuse to do anything but a full repeal there may be enough hard left anti cop Dems not willing the exempt police that the lack of exemption would stay. If the law is openly enforced selectively then it is open to a real challenge constitutionally.
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Old January 18, 2013, 12:24 AM   #245
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I hope that's what it comes to. However I don't want it to be about the except of LEOs and moreso on the entire premise of the argument
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Old January 19, 2013, 12:14 AM   #246
62coltnavy
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Pretty funny--they forgot to include aprovision exempting police officers, so to comply the law, they can only carry seven rounds in each mag. The POA is moving to amned the law to exclude leos as well as retired leos--but why retired leos should be treated any differently than the rest of us is an opne, and devisive, question. Also, the new law requires that all ammo sales must be documented and reported--but the regulations that would allow such reporting does not exist. Some retailers are taking the positionthat they cannot sell ammo at the current time. I've also heard that they are selling guns, butif the gun comes with a mag of greater than seven rounds capacity, they sell the gun without the mag, as the law prohibits them from doing so.
Changes are in the offing. But I soubt they will be broad enough.
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Old January 19, 2013, 10:49 PM   #247
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Cuomo has tried to say that LEOs are exempt per the old law even though the new one supersedes it. As I need to renew my permit in March I expect I will see a line of Retired LEOs turning in their mags to avoid being felons...
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