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Old January 18, 2013, 01:37 PM   #1
ghawke
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Star Modelo Super 9mm

Hi fellow forum members, I am usually in the revolver section but, I am helping a friend trying to find out about his Star Modelo Super. It has 9mm stamped on the barrel, but how can you tell if it's 9mm Largo or 9mm Luger?

I have found some info that they were made in Largo and replacement barrels for Luger were available once.
It does have a P stamped on the barrel after 9mm.

I will post some pics tomorrow if needed.

Thanks in advance,
Greg
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Old January 18, 2013, 01:51 PM   #2
Old Grump
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If it's marked B or Super B it's a 9x19 other wise it's a Largo and cannot use modern 9x32. +p on the barrel makes me wonder if it isn't a replacement barrel. Need more information like the birthday of the gun and any other markings.
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Old January 18, 2013, 02:12 PM   #3
FALPhil
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Quote:
If it's marked B or Super B it's a 9x19 other wise it's a Largo and cannot use modern 9x32.
Grump, I think you mean "9x23".

There are 5 9x23 cartridges that I am familiar with:

1. 9x23 Winchester - a very high pressure cartridge that should only be used in modern, beefy pistols.

2. 9mm Largo - a Spanish cartridge with somewhat better performance than the standard 9x19.

3. 9mm Steyr - an Austrian cartridge from the early 20th century with about the same performance as the 9x19.

4. 38ACP - a semi-rimmed cartridge used in the early Browning autoloader designs.

5. 38 Super Automatic - and updated, higher pressure version of the 38ACP.

Most of these interchangeable with each other from a pre-firing functional standpoint, therefore, great care must be take to ensure that a high pressure version is not fired in a firearm which cannot handle the pressure.
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Old January 18, 2013, 02:19 PM   #4
carguychris
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When examining older Stars...

9mmP = 9x19mm Luger aka Parabellum.

9mm/.38 = fires both 9x23mm Largo (aka 9mm Bergmann-Bayard) and .38 ACP interchangeably, but NOT .380 ACP or .38 Super!
Quote:
If it's marked... Super B...
Many Super-series Star pistols are not marked with a model letter; they're only marked "Super".
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Old January 18, 2013, 02:26 PM   #5
Bill DeShivs
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Most Stars have the model number stamped on the butt, over the serial number.
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Old January 18, 2013, 02:33 PM   #6
carguychris
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One other thing...

Quote:
It does have a P stamped on the barrel after 9mm.
Quote:
+p on the barrel makes me wonder if it isn't a replacement barrel.
The "P" in 9mmP doesn't have anything to do with +P or +P+ ammunition. 9mmP was once a modestly popular designation for the 9x19mm cartridge, presumably because it's not specific to a particular language, and it sidesteps the whole Luger vs. Parabellum terminology debate. I have a copy of the "Gun Digest Book of 9mm Handguns" published in 1986, and the writers consistently used 9mmP throughout.

However, the term has fallen into disuse, perhaps because "9mmP+P" and particularly "9mmP+P+" would look and sound very silly.
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Old January 18, 2013, 03:16 PM   #7
ghawke
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Wrong nomenclature by me

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies.
I should have said the 9mm with the P after it was stamped on the slide, not the barrel.
Also, the P was slightly crooked compared to other stamping.

As far as I recall it is only stamped Super.

I was told vintage is mid 60's.

Greg
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Old January 18, 2013, 05:07 PM   #8
Clark
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I have a Star Super B 9x19mm.
I got an after market 9x19mm barrel for it, and reamed that barrel out to 9x23mm.

The magazine in the Super B is long enough to feed handloads 1.29" OAL with 158 gr bullets.
Normally 9mm pistol magazines are shorter and can only feed up to 1.169" cartridges.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Star Super B 6-25-2012.jpg (89.9 KB, 15 views)
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Old January 18, 2013, 08:33 PM   #9
James K
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FWIW, the "P" does stand for "Parabellum" the common name in Europe for what SAAMI calls the 7.65 Luger and the 9mm Luger. The word comes from the Latin phrase "Si vis pacis, para bellum." (If you want peace, prepare for war.) It was the motto of Deutsche Waffen-und Munitions Fabriken (DWM) the original manufacturer of the Luger-designed pistol, which they called the Parabellum pistol. (DWM made an aircraft machinegun during WWI which they also called the Parabellum.)

So the use of the term "9mm P" for the 9x19 or 9mm Luger is quite correct and has nothing to do with the current +P and +P+ terms.

Jim
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Old January 18, 2013, 10:02 PM   #10
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Quote:

FWIW, the "P" does stand for "Parabellum" the common name in Europe for what SAAMI calls the 7.65 Luger and the 9mm Luger. The word comes from the Latin phrase "Si vis pacis, para bellum." (If you want peace, prepare for war.) It was the motto of Deutsche Waffen-und Munitions Fabriken (DWM) the original manufacturer of the Luger-designed pistol, which they called the Parabellum pistol. (DWM made an aircraft machinegun during WWI which they also called the Parabellum.)

So the use of the term "9mm P" for the 9x19 or 9mm Luger is quite correct and has nothing to do with the current +P and +P+ terms.
Good to know, thank you. I saw a P and read +P.

Quote:
Grump, I think you mean "9x23".

There are 5 9x23 cartridges that I am familiar with:

1. 9x23 Winchester - a very high pressure cartridge that should only be used in modern, beefy pistols.
The Winchester was what I feared him trying and wanted a clarification of what he really has.
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