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Old January 17, 2013, 06:00 PM   #1
Spats McGee
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113th Congress: House Bills 223-306

H.R.226 -- Support Assault Firearms Elimination and Reduction for our Streets Act (This one allows tax credit for surrendering an assault weapon, but only if it's lawfully possessed. Soooo, ummmm, felons in possession are NOT being encouraged to give up their assault weapons. )

H.R.227 -- Buyback Our Safety Act -- Establishes a gun buyback program in the AG's office. (Gee, I guess all of the buying panic dried up the supply of ARs that Holder needed to fill the cartel's orders.)

H.R.236 -- Crackdown on Deadbeat Gun Dealers Act of 2013

H.R.238 -- Fire Sale Loophole Closing Act

H.R.274 -- Mental Health First Act of 2013 (not strictly firearms related, but we're seeing a whole lotta mental health talk tied together with firearms talk these days)
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Old January 17, 2013, 06:26 PM   #2
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Dont stand a chance in hell of passing. I think we need to just relax a little at the federal level about every little bill at least until stuff is at least about to come out of comitiee or we are going to end up having heart attacks.


We will see lots and lots and lots of pro and anti gun bills, most will go knowhere. I Think so.ething like less than 7% of bills become law typically.

Some really funny bills mostly though, the Senate would never approve funds to buy back guns, nor would the house.
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Old January 18, 2013, 12:34 AM   #3
Tom Servo
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Thanks for keeping up on this, Spats!

H.R.226: A $2000 tax credit? Holy cow! Look what's eligible...Cheap Hi Point and Kel Tec carbines and TEC-9 clones! I could snap a few of those up on the cheap and profit.

H.R.227: As soon as the CBO publishes an estimate of the cost, this one's dead in the water.

H.R.236: Changing the FOPA to increase audits won't fly with most officials. One way to fight this is to simply ask the ATF if they've got the money or manpower. They don't.

H.R.238: Isn't this a clone of H.R. 93? Are they trying to simply force as many bills as possible? In any case, it's got no cosponsors.
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Old January 18, 2013, 03:26 AM   #4
steveno
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so will there be a collecting station at H & R Block?
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Old January 19, 2013, 05:15 PM   #5
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
H.R.226: A $2000 tax credit? Holy cow! Look what's eligible...Cheap Hi Point and Kel Tec carbines and TEC-9 clones! I could snap a few of those up on the cheap and profit.
If you read the "catch all" sections, it goes beyond that.

Any semi-auto firearm capable of using detachable magazines is eligible, if it includes any of the following features:
Code:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock,
(ii) a threaded barrel,
(iii) a pistol grip,
(iv) a forward grip, or
(v) a barrel shroud.
So, a 10/22 with a barrel shroud is eligible.
A Marlin 785 or model 70 with a pistol grip or folding stock is eligible.
A Browning BAR with a BOSS is eligible.
A Remington 597 with a folding stock is eligible.
And, the list goes on, and on....

There are quite a few ways to take a $75 (or cheaper) rifle, add a $25-50 accessory, and turn it into a $2,000 tax credit.


The "assault handgun" catch-all is even better:
Code:
(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability 
  to accept a detachable magazine, and has--
  ``(i) a second pistol grip,
  ``(ii) a threaded barrel,
  ``(iii) a barrel shroud, or
  ``(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable 
            magazine at a location outside of the pistol 
            grip.
(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine 
     that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

Of course, shotguns were not forgotten:
Code:
(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--
     ``(i) a folding or telescoping stock,
     ``(ii) a pistol grip,
     ``(iii) the ability to accept a detachable 
              magazine, or
     ``(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more 
              than 5 rounds.

But, the best is "catch-all" is right here:



Wait for it....





Wait for it....




Quote:
(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
The Circuit Judge is now worth $2,000 !


Check it out for yourself, here: HR 226
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Old January 19, 2013, 05:26 PM   #6
FrankenMauser
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I have been contacting my representatives and senators for each and every bill I see pop up.

For HR 226, in particular, this is the text I sent:

Quote:
Representative Matheson, Senator Lee, and Senator Hatch, I am writing you all at the same time.

I wanted to express my opinion on H.R. 226, the "Support Assault Firearms Elimination and Reduction for our Streets Act." I cannot find this entered as a bill in the Senate, yet; but wanted to ensure my thoughts were heard by all of you (should this make it to the Senate).

Aside from this bill being a potential first step down a slippery slope, by laying the groundwork for a "paid" confiscation program; it also calls for the allocation of Federal funds we do not have. My generation, and my children's generation (and their children) cannot afford to dig this country out of the mountain of debt that has been created by ignorant spending on a Federal level, without action being taken now. Adding to the debt with this tax credit program is absolutely not the answer.

In addition, this bill has some substantial flaws that completely cripple its intent, and have an unintended impact on the firearms market. Due to the wording of the bill, and the "catch all" categories, this bill would allow people to purchase cheap semi-automatic .22 caliber rifles with detachable magazines for $100 (or less), add a $15-30 pistol grip or folding stock, and claim a $2,000 tax credit. Some examples of the rifles that fit this category, and can be found in working condition for as little as $30: Ruger 10/22, Marlin 785/795/985, Marlin 70, Remington 597, Remington Viper, Henry (and others) AR-7, Savage 64, and more.

With a barely-functional and beat-up $30 Marlin 785, a used $30 pistol grip stock, and a trip to the local turn-in location, a person could net $1,940 in profit.

Not only do rifles like that allow for massive fraud, but their new "tax value" will cause prices to rise incrementally. Eventually, those formerly affordable (even 'cheap') .22 caliber rifles would all be priced at $2,000 or more, since that's what they're worth as a tax credit. ...That's in addition to every "assault weapon" in the U.S. being driven to a minimum price of $2,000, as well (more than 2 to 3 times the average price in November 2012).

In effect, the "tax credit" program would actually be levying an unofficial ban on any rifle that qualified for the program, by pricing them beyond the reach of the average citizen.

Overall, I oppose the legislation. In particular, the potential for financial fraud is a big concern. In general, we don't have the funds for such a program, to begin with.

Thank you for your time, and letting me address all three of you at the same time.

Note:
This was sent to them all, individually, under whatever subject their contact form had along the lines of "National Debt", or "Federal Budget". I did not select "Gun rights" or "Gun control" - in hopes of actually getting a real response (not something from the automated system).
At the time I didn't see the ridiculous catch-all for shotguns with revolving cylinders, or the max capacity of 5 rounds. And, I did not bother addressing handguns, since I wanted to keep the message as short as I could.
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Old January 19, 2013, 08:15 PM   #7
carguychris
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Quote:
The Circuit Judge is now worth $2,000 !
Actually- in all seriousness- doesn't the Circuit Judge have a rifled barrel, making it legally a rifle?

If it's a smoothbore, forgive my ignorance; I consider it a gimmick and I've generally ignored it.
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Old January 20, 2013, 01:12 AM   #8
FrankenMauser
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Taurus (Rossi) offers both rifled and smooth bore versions of it.
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Old January 20, 2013, 10:37 AM   #9
Carry_24/7
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Tax credits are "maybes", all they do is "possibly" assist in putting you in a lower tax bracket...resulting in lower taxes. For the average person, that $2000.00 credit means absolutely nothing....but they won't find that out till tax time to their surprise.

I'll keep my guns, they can keep their "potential" credits.
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Old January 20, 2013, 11:02 AM   #10
carguychris
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Quote:
Tax credits are "maybes", all they do is "possibly" assist in putting you in a lower tax bracket...resulting in lower taxes. For the average person, that $2000.00 credit means absolutely nothing....
Carry_24/7, you're confusing a credit with a deduction. A deduction is applied against your gross income whereas a credit is applied against your actual tax liability. If you owe the IRS $3,000 before applying a $2,000 credit, you owe $1,000 after the credit is applied. A credit works like a direct payment from the IRS.
Quote:
With a barely-functional and beat-up $30 Marlin 785, a used $30 pistol grip stock, and a trip to the local turn-in location, a person could net $1,940 in profit.
If my reading of the bill is correct, what FrankenMauser writes would literally become true if the legislation passes as written.
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Last edited by carguychris; January 20, 2013 at 11:12 AM.
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Old January 20, 2013, 11:25 AM   #11
Alabama Shooter
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HR 236:

Quote:
The Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives may hire at least 50 additional personnel for the purpose of carrying out additional inspections as provided for in the amendments made by this Act.
That is awesome. I would to see the study that was done that says 50 new personnel will be required to enforce this law.

HR 227:

Quote:
(f) National Academy of Sciences Standards- The Attorney General, through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Justice Programs, shall enter into an arrangement with the National Academy of Sciences to develop standards for identifying, and identify, guns that are the most likely to be used in violent crimes and establish a pricing scale for purchasing guns so identified through gun buyback programs receiving grants under this section.
Using real data looks like HiPoint Pistols are about to go through the roof and the bottom will drop out of the AR market.

Quote:
With a barely-functional and beat-up $30 Marlin 785, a used $30 pistol grip stock, and a trip to the local turn-in location, a person could net $1,940 in profit.
Why look for a stock? Just thread the barrel and be done with it.

I'm in. Sounds like I will be saving $1950/ a year in taxes and getting junk off the market. I can't help it if the people writing the law are willfully ignorant, they choose to be that way despite our best efforts to educate them. It is their system, I am just along for the ride even if it is a downward spiral.

ETA: I gave this some more thought and now wish the NRA would back this last one (HR 226) hard. There would be some great advantages:

- Criminals will not benefit like they do during gun buy backs when trying to get rid of crime guns for cash. Since they mostly pay no taxes there is no incentive for them to participate.

- The money given can be used to fund much better gun purchases. For minimal costs I can fund a new AR project every year. Just about anyone would be able to afford a nice new gun purchase by trading in old junk.

- Gun makers will benefit all around. Low end gun makers will benefit from purchase and trade in. High end gun makers will benefit after the tax returns come in. If used properly it would be very much like a cash for clunkers give away program.
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Last edited by Alabama Shooter; January 20, 2013 at 01:36 PM.
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Old January 20, 2013, 02:40 PM   #12
Carry_24/7
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Car guy, you are correct, I did get them confused.
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