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Old January 13, 2013, 10:35 AM   #26
oneoldsap
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I polish a lot of Rem. auto and pump chambers . I use 000 steel wool on a brass brush for starters , then SimiChrome (Flitz is same thing) on a bore mop . It smooths them up and retards new rust also , the smoother the surface , the less it will rust !
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Old January 13, 2013, 11:01 AM   #27
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Flitz has grit

"I don't think there's any "grit" rating for Flitz. It says "non-abrasive" on the bottle. All it does is turn a smooth finish into a mirror finish. "

I think all "polishing" compounds must have some level of grit in them to make any change to the metal surface. In Flitz's case, it may be very very fine, but it still has to be abrasive (at perhaps some microscopic level) to do anything.

Even water abrades granite over enough time.
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Old January 13, 2013, 11:21 AM   #28
Brian Pfleuger
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I'm just quoting what it says on the bottle. No grit rating and it says "Non-abrasive".

It's certainly very, very fine. Two minutes of polishing at 500rpm on mild steel yielded no measurable reduction in diameter of a cylinder for VarmintAl. Measuring a cylinder doubles the measurement because you're polishing and measuring both sides. So even doubling the measurement was undetectable with his micrometers.
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Old January 13, 2013, 08:01 PM   #29
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BTW, I used 320 and finally 400 grit when I polished my chamber. I should add that I chambered the bore myself and that the finishing reamer left marks. This is different from having a finished rifle and deciding that it could use some polishing.
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Old January 17, 2013, 01:33 PM   #30
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100% contact is more contact than 75% contact, I want all the contact I can get. and I want nothing between my chamber and case but air, clean air, air can be compressed, air is fluid, air flows.

Long story, I have a Model 70 Winchester chambered in 300 Winchester Mag, it came with the ugliest chamber I have ever seen, I called Winchester, I explained to them the ugliness of the chamber, in diameter, length and gouges, they instructed me to take the rifle to their warranty smith, I did, he said he was going to hone, polish and or ream the chamber, And I then ask “How will honing, polishing and or reaming going to make the chamber smaller”. Brilliant, his answer was brilliant, he said Winchester said he had to di it. Months later I went to the warranty smith to to check on my rifle, no rifle, I ask why? the warranty smith said the chamber was too large. He sent the rifle back to Winchester, Winchester and I had words, they accused me of of going from being difficult to impossible, I wanted a chamber that fit my dies or I wanted Winchester dies to fit their chamber. It has been 4 years since they returned the rifle ‘in a new box’ one day I will take the rifle to the range.

With all my barrels and not one barrel for a Winchester with a Magnum bolt face.

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Old January 17, 2013, 01:49 PM   #31
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“Using a bore scope”

If I was using a bore scope I would not be checking for the ‘the cross hatch pattern’.when reaming a chamber the instructions read something like “Do not remove the reamer without rotating the reamer when withdrawing”. So, how did the cross hatch get into cylinder, we know the method for reaming is not back and forth but straight in and straight out while rotating. And then the other question, to cross hatch a tapered cylinder the cross hatch tool would have to have expander springs to force the tool against the taper while making/cutting the cross hatch??

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Old January 19, 2013, 08:41 AM   #32
Bart B.
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Guffey, full length sizing dies' inside dimensions are made to be smaller than rifle chambers. It's not good to have them the same size; if so, fired cases would never be sized smaller.
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Old January 20, 2013, 04:55 PM   #33
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The die is adjustable !
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Old January 20, 2013, 09:43 PM   #34
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Leave it lone

Shoot the rifle. Enjoy the rifle and don't sweat the small scratches in the chamber.
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Old January 21, 2013, 12:05 PM   #35
F. Guffey
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“Guffey, full length sizing dies' inside dimensions are made to be smaller than rifle chambers. It's not good to have them the same size; if so, fired cases would never be sized smaller”

Bart B. I understand and know where that came from, for the benefit of others reading this forum please explain to those that can not distinguish fact from fiction and truth from nonsense the meaning and your motive.

I do not have rifles built, if I want another rifle, I build it. If I do not have a the reamer I have access to 200+, from a total of three friends, I offer them access top 64 reamers. We are all old and doing less, but none of us are starving for attention.

Oneildsap, My presses have threads, my dies have threads, threads on my presses for my dies make my dies adjustable, I do not make wild guestimates as in fractional guesses of a turn or turns in degree converted to thousandths. I use the verifier, I use the feeler gage to verify adjustments in thousandths (.000). Meaning, if I wasted my time guessing when adjusting my dies in fractions and or degree converted to thousandths I would still verify the adjustment, for those that can keep up and have no other motive for arguing when adjusting the die to the shell holder it makes more sense to go straight to the verifying tool, the feeler gage than make a wild guess at the adjustment, then check for accuracy by verifying.

Then there are those that insist on guessing and measuring until ...etc.. For them there is no other way.....because? They insist.

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Old January 21, 2013, 12:09 PM   #36
F. Guffey
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and I said:

100% contact is more contact than 75% contact, I want all the contact I can get. and I want nothing between my chamber and case but air, clean air, air can be compressed, air is fluid, air flows.

If the case was larger than the chamber there would not be room for air between the case and chamber.

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Old January 22, 2013, 08:54 AM   #37
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I polish a rifle barrel chamber after finish reaming with a brass tip polishing stick with 320 paper like 450 does.
Must have same instructors in school.

For rusting /case sticking I use red/orange diamond paste with oil on a bob/patch.

Or some four o bronze wool
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Old January 22, 2013, 07:13 PM   #38
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I can't imagine a chamber with scratches "barely visible to the naked eye" could cause issues of any kind.

This is the chamber- not the bore/rifling. Seems to my non-gunsmith self that messing with this could accomplish nothing positive with one heck of lot of potential downside.

But hey, there's guys that like to tumble, shine, and polish their brass and primer pockets to microscopic scrutiny...
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Old January 25, 2013, 06:31 AM   #39
HiBC
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Generally speaking,as cut by the reamer is as geometrically and dimensionally correct as that chamber will be.

If,for whatever reason,the surface finish is not so good,sometimes,maybe,its a reasonable compromise to trade some small amount of dimension or geometric form to gain surface finish.

I would choose the correctness of form over surface finish most of the time.

Best!,use a good sharp reamer and use it right and you will have a very good tool finish.That is a good chamber.

If the tool marks are around the circumferance of the chamber,as they would be from twisting a reamer,you do not polish them out by spinning the barrel and holding some abrasive thing in the chamber.The abrasive will quickly adapt to the lines of the toolmarks,it will cut in the valleys as it cuts the peaks.You will round off and blend,eventually,but what you need to do is cross the texture of the cut...stroke in and out.Then you are only cutting the tops off the peaks.Run the lathe as slow as it will go,or do not run it at all,turn by hand and watch your progress..The stoning lines will run in the direction of the bore,across the toolmarks.If you are running the lathe slow,it will make a crosshatch.Now,once you have stoning lines running in the direction of the bore,then you can switch to a finer grit,spin up the latheand now you will be crossing the stone lines you just made.
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Old February 3, 2013, 12:57 PM   #40
yggorf
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Pics

Here are pictures of the cases removed from the chamber in question. You can see the scratch lines left on the cases. (These are more easily seen than trying to look fro the scratches in the chamber.)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 260ai.jpg (87.2 KB, 25 views)
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Old February 3, 2013, 01:18 PM   #41
Brian Pfleuger
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You sure those scratches aren't being caused by feeding/magazine?
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Old February 3, 2013, 08:36 PM   #42
guncrank
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HiBC polish like I have describe have been taught at TSJC for years
A " t " handled polishing stick with a paper roll on it.
Well I can't use the common name the instructor called them as it was a course word.


This is to smooth the chamber walls not to remove chatter marks
If it removes the mark it also would make the chamber bigger
With any method
Stoning included.
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Old February 4, 2013, 02:29 AM   #43
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Those scratches on the brass are from feeding, not from the chamber.
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Old February 4, 2013, 08:14 AM   #44
HiBC
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Guncrank

By TSJT I assume you mean Trinidad.Cool,good school.

I never went there.

In my trade of designing and building plastic injection molds,I learned a little different style than most gunsmiths .

My employer sent me to Chicago to understudy a master mold and die finisher.The US Mint had him polishing coining dies when I walked in his shop.He immediately put me to work polishing the cavities for a mold to make plastic spray can covers.

There are satellites in the sky that have miirors of tungsten carbide I hand polished to a total variation from flat of .0001.At least that was the spec'd tolerance,and the people building the satellite sent back compliments.

What is good for all of us to realize,there is an incredible range of experience and skills among the members of this forum.

It might be fair to say I could give your instructor at TSJC lessons on polishing.

I am very happy to pass on what I know,but I just am not interested in struggling.You go right ahead and do it the way you do it.

Ever used a DME profiler?Got one on my toolbox.Variable strokes 0 to about 1/4 in,0 to 14,000 strokes a minute.I float laps and stones with it using a pick.You know the Fordhem grinder,yes?I have a 1/2 hp 10,000 rpm version,thakes 1/4 in tools in the collet.I go down to a little 90 degree 175,000 rpm dental grinder.I have bulk 1 in thick rock hard felt I hole saw buffs out of.Cast iron laps?Do you know whay a puddle stone is?A stone like a Gesswein is sintered and vitrified.Its not good when the grit breaks down in a clump.That clump digs up your work.A puddlestone is like a japanese water stone.It won't do that.I do most of the rest with number 9 and number 12 diamond compound.

I can polish over edges,holes,lettering,and leave the edges flat,crisp,and sharp

For most of the mold work I did,the plastic part had to fall within common tolerances for a chamber.My work had to be 1/10th that tolerance.If the tolerance was .004,I got .0004.

My mentor is probably dead.The skills of old masters are like gold!I'm trying to give it away.
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Old February 4, 2013, 09:34 AM   #45
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Ahha sorry to offend a master polisher
And no that is not ment as a smart aleck remark

No I don't have a D profiler
Know all about Gesswin stones and DME
Have a assortment of several hardness and grades.
I have knowledge of your type of work.

Trained as a moldmaker on injection molds.

I was pointing out or trying to point out that no method of polishing will remove a scratch in chamber without making said chamber out of spec.
You said same thing , just a more technical way.

I polished the dies I made but the optical Len dies went to a guy like you to finish
Which we had a teacher like you at school but alas not the case.

A split polish stick like I said is just to slick up a chamber not remove scratches.

Keep posting as I said in another thread, stop learning and you stop being the best you can be.
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Old February 4, 2013, 10:25 AM   #46
yggorf
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Any cause for concern?

Would you do anything about these scratches, or are they a "below the radar" kind of thing?
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Old February 4, 2013, 10:47 AM   #47
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Any cause for concern?
Would you do anything about these scratches, or are they a "below the radar" kind of thing?
*
No I think your scratches are from feeding as Scroch said
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Old February 4, 2013, 03:35 PM   #48
HiBC
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No offense taken.

And,you do understand.Thanks
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Old February 4, 2013, 06:22 PM   #49
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HiBC,

Do you mind sharing a source of the hard felt stock?


Guncrank,

I've done a fair amount of fire lapping, and I don't find the bore reamer marks are usually more than about a ten thousandth or two deep (a slug shows it has opened up maybe a quarter to a half a thousandth at most by the time all the abrasive marks are scratched longitudinal. I assume most chamber marks, unless there's a real gouge, are similar in RMS surface roughness. Given the +0.002" typical SAAMI chamber diameter specs, unless your chamber is at that maximum, taking off a tenth to a quarter thousandth shouldn't really take the chamber out of spec. But you do need to know what you are starting with and I've seen a few pretty fat AR chambers (5.56 NATO spec) that I would not want to enlarge any.

I agree that using the reamer correctly in the first place is the main key. I got one of Greg Tannel's through-bore pressure cutting fluid systems years ago, and if everything is set up right on the lathe and you use a reamer whose pilot has lube passages ground in, you wind up with one very smooth chamber finish from the git-go.
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Old February 4, 2013, 07:49 PM   #50
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If you have a scratch in the chamber it will be from a chip stuck in a flute or chatter from a fouled or dull reamer.

That is probley be more than .0002 deep
It that is the case no polish will remove that without making a chamber out of round.
Now a scratch could be less than that and polished out but not from my experence.
A deep scratch polishing should at least reduce the edge that the case would stick too.

Polishing a chamber to remove rust is the main job that I run in my shop.
The OP has feeding scratches not chamber scratches.
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Last edited by guncrank; February 5, 2013 at 08:09 AM.
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