The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 14, 2013, 03:26 AM   #1
cloud8a
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 341
Tunnel Vision and Tunnel Hearing

Looking at some videos and articles on gunfights that LEO's have gone through historically, I have heard the terms of tunnel vision and tunnel hearing.

Has there been any research on the idea that these aspects of a gunfight, or any situation of life and death emergency, are psychologically applied inadvertently in recall?

In other words, is it possible that during the actual gunfight there was not an effect of tunnel vision? Has there been any research or study that might have shown that tunnel vision is something applied only during the remembering stage of what happened?
cloud8a is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 04:58 AM   #2
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 1,690
It is a normal manifestation that takes place in a highly stressful situation and a reaction to adrenaline. Your body goes through rapid temporary changes is is actually auditory exclusion not tunnel hearing.

With the adrenaline dump your body gets ready for fight or flight, you lose fine motor skills, your hearing seems to be diminished, the world appears to slow down. Blood is channeled away from the surface to your core your brain is in hyper drive absorbing everything, which is why everything seems like it is in slow motion. You can and should train to break tunnel vision, that is partially why you should train for the 360 scan. Coming down from a severe adrenaline dump you may be nauseous and you start shaking everywhere.

There have been numerous studies.
__________________
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 07:49 AM   #3
jason_iowa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Posts: 686
Its something you need to learn to use to your advantage. You can not change your physiology. You train for muscle memory so even if your "thinking" brain goes awol your lizard brain does what it needs to.

The amount of stress and adrenalin it takes to into fight or flight mode is both individual and increases with training and combat experience. I like to use my cousin as example because he is one of the best marksmen that I know. I would trust him to shoot an apple off my head at 25 yards with his pistol and a couple hundred yards with his rifle. You blow stuff up around him or shoot at him while hes doing it though and his accuracy is going to go to hell. Switching targets is going to slow down while his brain tries to process all the visual and auditory information. His brain is going to start shutting things out to try to cope with the situation. Lizard brain is going to take over panic and fight or flight.

You take an operator with thousands of hours of training and combat under the most stressful conditions imaginable. That person is used to jumping out of a plane at 40,000 ft, bullets flying, gun fire going off all around, explosions some controlled some not so controlled, the smell of blood and burning flesh on and on... That person is going to go through that situation with the same physiological conditions but a vastly different response. Your brain will still shut out a lot of the stuff going on as a matter of experience and focus on your mission. Identify threats, suppress threats, complete objectives catch a ride home, debrief, eat and go to sleep. For years later deal with PTSD...

To prepare for a SD situation IMO is to practice your draw and fire. I train people on 3 targets. left to right, bang, bang, bang bang, back to the left bang, bang. Do that until you could draw and fire at a man sized target at 20ft blind folded and you will be good to go. Practice the draw and dry fire! The drawing is as important as the shooting. If you mess it up it does not matter how well you shoot.

Sorry long winded this morning!!
jason_iowa is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 12:10 PM   #4
fastbolt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,479
There have been studies done regarding sensory deficits during stressful situations (of which auditory exclusion is one such phenomena).

One of the interesting results that have surfaced over the years is that specific & proper training can, in effect, help "inoculate" some people against some of these sensory deficits.

Cognitive functions may be depressed (the lizard brain surfaces, as was mentioned, and people often go into "freeze, flight or fight mode"), but the ability to access and engage training that's deeply ingrained can be cultivated.

Operating on just any sort of unplanned "instinct" can get you killed, especially if the "instinctive action" which the person's lack of experience spits out is counter-productive for survival under specific circumstances.

Being able to effectively access & employ properly ingrained training during moments of high stress is still going to require the ability to make good decisions, though.

Being able to function while experiencing the psychological and physiological effects of unexpected stressful situations (including the effects of the hormonal fear response) can be unpredictable for people, especially if they're untrained & unprepared to face such situations ... but good training (both initial & recurrent), has been found to be helpful.

Memory, and being able to access it, is another subject.
__________________
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
fastbolt is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 12:47 PM   #5
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 501
In a highly stressful situation --- such as in a gunfight --- the shooter focuses on the target, with the brain funneling more blood flow to the center of the macula, which has a concentration of cones, that have a better visual acuity then the outer periphery motion sensing rods. This effect...can contribute to "tunnel vison".

After a shooter has finished engaging the target, it is recommended that the shooter should break the tunnel vison effect, by turning the head and eyes from side to side {with the brain sending more blood flow to the motion sensing rods}, to pick up any targets in your peripheral vison; so as to engage any bad guys that deserve it.

Last edited by Erno86; January 14, 2013 at 12:57 PM.
Erno86 is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 02:06 PM   #6
Alabama Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: Sweet Home
Posts: 886
Quote:
In other words, is it possible that during the actual gunfight there was not an effect of tunnel vision?
Possible but not likely. I believe this because at times I have noted myself experiencing it, it did not go away right away. I had to make conscious physical efforts to dismiss the effect.
__________________
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.
Alabama Shooter is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 02:28 PM   #7
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 501
If your eyes get blurry while shooting...means {one cause} that you are not breathing enough --- proper breathing --- is inorder to have the proper amount of oxygen in your blood, to stimulate your eyeballs for better visual acuity.

I saw Saving Private Ryan, in the tunnel hearing battle scene...but I'm not sure what the cause and effect is.

p.s. --- I'm not an eye doctor

Last edited by Erno86; January 14, 2013 at 02:45 PM.
Erno86 is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 02:30 PM   #8
dayman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Location: The Woods
Posts: 1,054
I seem to remember reading about a study that had looked into that - I'm thinking it was for a class, but it may have just been internet reading.
If I'm remembering correctly they found that "tunnel vision" is - at least in part - selective memory after the fact.
When you're stressed out you're likely going to be focused on one thing. Being so focused will tend to make you less observant at the time, but has an even greater effect on your ability to remember the things you weren't focused on later. It's a lot harder to override our senses than our memory.

The same thing happens any time you're extremely focused on something. Driving in the snow you (hopefully) still notice that there are other cars on the road and drive accordingly, but after you get home you'd probably be hard pressed to remember any of them specifically.
__________________
si vis pacem para bellum
dayman is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 05:05 PM   #9
PH/CIB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 281
Fear can be a wonderful thing…Instead of freezing you up it can be channeled along with the adrenalin rush into an unbelievable controlled rage and the fury to prevail.

Things Slowing Down…This actually does happen although nothing slows down, your body is moving as fast as humanly possible at warp speed but your mind is moving even faster at light speed and sees things in slow motion. Absolutely terrifying.

Tunnel Vision can be a wonderful thing….If a man in front of you is going to kill you in the next second take care of him immediately….Worry about your 360 after he’s dead.

Hearing Loss…Only experienced once, as you need to hear to survive, instead of calming it was absolutely terrifying, did not do it intentionally or consciously.

Mindset…As a Soldier you have had hopefully extensive appropriate training and the expectation of firefights and people getting wounded and killed, the enemy, your buddies, even yourself. You have also mentally prepared to kill or be killed. As a civilian, and I agree with Pax and everyone else who says get all the training you can, we go through life not looking for trouble but trying to avoid it and most of us are used to a life that is without danger, so when danger does occur it will be a shock. The more training and mental preparation the better, I have been in firefights where I was there and intensely involved, I have been in firefights where I was intensely involved but detached and not there. As opposed to a military firefight with multiple combatants, a personal civilian firefight will probably be between you and another man and one or both of you are about to die….Nothing could be colder, harder, or more personal.

God forbid it should ever happen to you, but if you don’t get killed or severely wounded, although never easy, like everything else in life it does get somewhat easier after the first time.

Two lessons learned from combat, you probably have heard them before as I and probably others have kicked them around a bit.

1. If a man is not pointing a rifle at you and you are not going to die in the next second, you have no problems and nothing to complain about.

2. You can blow off my leg and I’ll crawl up the mountain on my other leg…..

You can blow off my arm and I’ll fire my rifle with my other arm…..

You can never defeat me…..

All you can do is kill me.
__________________
Life Member,,,Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Amvets, Disabled American Veterans, 173rd Airborne Skysoldier Association, National Rifle Association, Member,,,IDPA, USPSA, Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association,,Website http://www.handgunholsters.net

Last edited by PH/CIB; January 14, 2013 at 05:12 PM.
PH/CIB is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 08:56 PM   #10
Joe_Pike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Posts: 1,004
I've had two attempted break-ins at my house in the last 12 1/2 months and I experienced tunnel vision and auditory exclusion too an extreme during the first one. There was a huge adrenaline dump, but I managed to arm myself, get dressed, call the police and keep watch of the entry points without any trouble. It seemed to me that I was extremely focused. I couldn't go back to sleep for 4 1/2 hours afterward, though. I know some people get sick after a huge adrenaline dump, but I didn't. I did however start crying about 1/2 hour later. It took me a minute to figure out it was because of the adrenaline.

The second time was different. I was mad and there wasn't much adrenaline.
__________________
Stay Groovy
Joe_Pike is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 12:16 PM   #11
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
I've experienced some of these things but not in a gunfight. Probably most of you have, too, but don't realize it because you're only thinking of gunfighting. Probably you've had extremely stressful and sudden situtations when driving that approximate somewhat the stress of shootings. Of course, you are also schooled to think of a gunfight as a kill or get killed situation but not so when you're driving (I assume).

I think reactions might be unpredictable for an individual, but hopefully less so when they've been through a certain kind of situation before. Likewise, none of this has to be a sudden thing. By that I mean only that the stressful situation might be something that lasts--for minutes--or even hours. That sort of takes it to a new level but that's outside of my experience. But there's nothing that says an emergency will be over in five or ten minutes.

Some of this discussions revolves around exactly what you mean when you say "tunnel vision." It's still a good term though but even when you've done something that results in what you think of as tunnel vision, it's still hard to describe. I would say that it does seem like things slow down but as PH/CIB (Purple Heart etc?) says, what really happens is that you are speeding up, sensory-wise. Most of the time things happen and you're barely aware of them. But in an emergency, you (hopefully) will perform a little better.

I've never heard of the expression tunnel hearing but I think I understand what is meant. I have heard a nearby gunshot unexpectedly and heard no more than a pop. Yet other times a car horn might startle me. I can't explain it but at least hardly anyone blows their horn anymore.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 10:50 PM   #12
cloud8a
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 341
Quote:
I've never heard of the expression tunnel hearing but I think I understand what is meant. I have heard a nearby gunshot unexpectedly and heard no more than a pop. Yet other times a car horn might startle me. I can't explain it but at least hardly anyone blows their horn anymore.
Tunnel Hearing is a term and effect I heard while looking at the 1986 FBI Miami shoot out. In an old documentary one of the agents discussed trying to call out and warn another agent. He produced that phrase.
cloud8a is offline  
Old January 16, 2013, 10:57 AM   #13
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,558
Selective attention, perceptual narrowing are the more technical terms.

Tunnel vision refers to a seeming concentration of vision to foveal center. Tunnel hearing makes no sense in terms of the mechanisms.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old January 16, 2013, 06:15 PM   #14
Alabama Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: Sweet Home
Posts: 886
Quote:
Tunnel hearing makes no sense in terms of the mechanisms.
After shooting without hearing protection everything is kind of distant and muffled.
__________________
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.
Alabama Shooter is offline  
Old January 16, 2013, 07:48 PM   #15
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,558
Nothing to do with tunnels though. Shooting without protection damages the physical mechanisms of your ears.

Tunnel hearing - bad term - some say auditory exclusion which is a selective attention effect.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old January 16, 2013, 11:01 PM   #16
TheDoubleDeuce
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2013
Posts: 108
I read about a LEO who made a traffic stop on two individuals. While talking to one suspect outside the car, the guy in the car shot at the LEO. Cop draws his weapon and returns fire. Doesn't even notice the guy next to him who draws another weapon and shoots him at point blank range.

Now that may be a poor example, because I don't know the exact angles involved and whether the LEO had tunnel vision specifically or if he just looked away at the wrong time. We can't be aware of everything all the time.

Then again, later on another law enforcement officer engages the same two suspects with a shotgun. He fires all his shells and does not score any significant hits (I think one glancing blow to the forehead). Then he empties his revolver and IIRC does not land any shots. He returns to his vehicle and begins to reload his revolver. They later found his spent brass in his pocket; muscle memory from his range shooting. He did not see one of the suspects sneak up to his vehicle and the criminal was able to shoot him at close range.

I am not an expert. I don't know how extensively these officers trained. But it's obvious they had enough training to make the pocketing of spent cases instinctual.

I am recalling this from memory so it may not be completely accurate. I do remember being appalled and saddened by the horrific circumstances that came to pass due to the officers not recognizing enough about their surroundings. Whether that is due to tunnel vision or bad luck I do not know. The whole story is on Wikipedia, and I'll look for it and post the link if i find it, in case I am remembering details incorrectly.

EDIT: I guess he did not pocket his spent brass; it was a rumor. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newhall_massacre

Last edited by TheDoubleDeuce; January 16, 2013 at 11:11 PM.
TheDoubleDeuce is offline  
Old January 17, 2013, 01:32 AM   #17
Brit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 840
I have not been in a gun fight, pointed guns at people, that was enough, but not actually shot anyone.

But I have been in a lot of fights (worked for 5 years as a Bouncer in Liverpool UK) stabbed twice. 1960 till 64, the Cavern Club, of Beatles fame, 65, the Blue Angel on Seal st. Some real violence there.

Three years in Australia, moved to Canada in 1968, had to return to England, family business.

On a nice Friday evening, went out for supper, 4 of us. Brother in law, my Wifes Sister, my wife, and I.

New Café, the Moon Glow Indian, St Helens, Lancashire, on entering, spotted 4 Young yobs, i was 33, (sitting with empty plates going to do a runner!) they made not quite low comments, about our good looking woman.

To cut to the chase, as i approached their table, comments had been escalating, me with a 10 shilling note in my top pocket (bribe) when one jumped to his feet hands coming up. My flat foot kick to his chest, sent him back, fast, his head hit his buddy behind him, splat.

One other went to stand, putting his hands on his knees! My down chop, fist, crushed his nose.

The last one climbed over the booth, I hit him with a chair when he jumped off the table.

I was calm, cool, and not exited, at all. My shoes squeaked on the tile floor, all movements were in slow motion, sounds were very clear.

When the Police arrived, the young guys had left. I explained I had been ATTACKED! "Yes Sir, I know who did it"

It turned out the local emergency ward had 4 new customers.

One broken arm, two broken noses, 3 broken ribs. We went home.

As I had said, i had been in lots of fights, the only reaction i had, was driving away, adrenalin thigh muscle! Oh, and a cut knuckle on my right fist.

I would imagine if you had been in a weapon situation, the second one would have been easier?
Brit is offline  
Old January 17, 2013, 06:14 AM   #18
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
both excerpt quotes good points (as well as entire posts)

1)doubledeuce

Quote:
I read about a LEO who made a traffic stop on two individuals. While talking to one suspect outside the car, the guy in the car shot at the LEO. Cop draws his weapon and returns fire. Doesn't even notice the guy next to him who draws another weapon and shoots him at point blank range.

Now that may be a poor example, because I don't know the exact angles involved and whether the LEO had tunnel vision specifically or if he just looked away at the wrong time. We can't be aware of everything all the time.
......

it also could have been a 'bangbang' play: LEO draws and passenger draws almost simultaneously or instinctively after LEO draws on driver

2)erno

Quote:
In a highly stressful situation --- such as in a gunfight --- the shooter focuses on the target, with the brain funneling more blood flow to the center of the macula, which has a concentration of cones, that have a better visual acuity then the outer periphery motion sensing rods. This effect...can contribute to "tunnel vison".
......

sometimes the blood goes to the brain causing a freeze and/or confusion/overload which is obviously bad. when it works in the opposite fashion it can help(more strength if family member under car, etc)
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old January 17, 2013, 06:23 AM   #19
youngunz4life
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2010
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,877
this tunnel vision/blood flow can occur with witnesses too(even the confusion part which can lead witnesses to not remember physical features of assailants, robbers, and so-on because they aren't pre-trained to notice these important details).

Often times they see one event and have no clue of what else is going on around them.

as for private ryan movie post, I think that is more of a shell shock scene as well as obvious side-effects to include physical amongst others of weapons w/regards to military warfare in close proximity (same actor from the movie "HEAT" in 1995)
__________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864
youngunz4life is offline  
Old January 17, 2013, 06:43 AM   #20
FlySubCompact
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2012
Posts: 220
I never experienced tunnel hearing, but on adrenaline rushes I have had the vision thing. Twice, during fist fights and also when I was shooting my first arrow ever at a deer.

My father, a veteran of the Korean War (twice wounded Army medic) never has talked much about the war, but he did relate to me a few things over the years. One conversation was spurred right after we watched Saving Private Ryan together when it first came out. I asked him "Dad, I hear that folks say this movie is supposed to have some of the most realistic battle scenes.....is that so?" He said "Yes, especially that scene on the beach when they landed. That thing where his hearing went away. Same thing happened to me. That was really like it was for me a time or two. I also got that tunnel vision thing."

(Kind of subject highjacking here, but) I asked him what was the fakest part of the battle scenes? He said "The wounds.....we never saw wounds that clean. Most we saw were black (burnt) and/or caked in dirt." If he called the wounds in that movie "clean", I'm sorry he had to deal with the real ones.
FlySubCompact is offline  
Old January 17, 2013, 11:13 AM   #21
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,558
In crimes - it's called weapons focus effect. Witnesses or victims focus and remember more details of the weapons than attackers.

Argued is due to the weapon being uniquely focused on or just being something unusual in the scene.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old January 18, 2013, 02:52 AM   #22
rayway
Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2012
Posts: 35
As Glenn said Selective Perceptions. Like one time I had a phenomena where I was just casually walking at night and my visualitory facuialties just narrowed to a say roughly 15% acuity in my front gaze so very selective. Also when my eyes were looking forward they also sorta trance locked forward. I had hardly any control to seem to migrate their solid stare. I don't remember why my senses were so Raw to my psyche but it was definately a Style of Stress I was experiencing it's stress that had to have caused it but yes its hard even though my visual memory is very very good to remember this but. I can remember things when I was 5 mabey I could be unknowlingly fabricating this assumed fact that I remember so well. But it seems very solidly so. Sensory-Overloaded oreinted visual and audio experiences I guess the two are tied in.
rayway is offline  
Old January 19, 2013, 02:10 PM   #23
PH/CIB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 281
"You can and should train to break tunnel vision, that is partially why you should train for the 360 scan." Quote from Nanuk

This is excellent advice, while tunnel vision can help to eliminate a threat, you should immediately after scan your surroundings for additional threats.
__________________
Life Member,,,Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Amvets, Disabled American Veterans, 173rd Airborne Skysoldier Association, National Rifle Association, Member,,,IDPA, USPSA, Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association,,Website http://www.handgunholsters.net
PH/CIB is offline  
Old January 19, 2013, 02:51 PM   #24
LRChops
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2013
Location: Placer County
Posts: 125
In a shoot fast and slow motion are in play and your hearing shuts down. Adrenaline! IT takes a trained and skilled LEO to keep his/her senses clean and stay aware of tunnel vision to eliminate it. Always stay in high ready and check your back after a shoot! This is how we train on the range and the way you train is the way you react in a real engagement.

ON the range,,,shoot on the move, check over your right and left shoulder, check yoru partners. Never stand in one place and shoot. Do your tactical reloads and keep the pistol or rifle at full capacity. Always reload in the high ready, never down near your mag pouches. Be ready to punch out and fire again!!! Then check your back again. Use cover if available. Always train real life!!!!! Always practice fast draw, dry fire, and mag changes. Tac reloads are important. Muscle memory!!!!
__________________
May God make smooth the path you follow!
LRChops is offline  
Old January 22, 2013, 02:36 AM   #25
Ben Towe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2009
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 1,120
Quote:
Like one time I had a phenomena where I was just casually walking at night and my visualitory facuialties just narrowed to a say roughly 15% acuity in my front gaze so very selective. Also when my eyes were looking forward they also sorta trance locked forward. I had hardly any control to seem to migrate their solid stare.
This happens to me fairly often. Generally it happens when I'm extremely focused on something, such as working on something small or intricate, driving for long periods, or looking at something intently (trying to determine a buck's antler size, beautiful woman, etc.)

I have also experienced it in high stress situations and have experienced auditory suppression as well, though nothing I would describe as "tunnel hearing".

Quote:
In crimes - it's called weapons focus effect. Witnesses or victims focus and remember more details of the weapons than attackers.

Argued is due to the weapon being uniquely focused on or just being something unusual in the scene.
I have read about this. There are reports of witnesses describing a pistol as huge and when recovered it being a tiny .25 or .22 mouse gun. Apparently there are also a surprising number of hand/weapon hits in gunfights due to the phenomenon.

Excellent thread.
__________________
'Merica: Back to back World War Champs
Ben Towe is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13287 seconds with 9 queries