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Old January 5, 2013, 08:22 PM   #1
Vermonter
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Moon Clip Users

As a lefty revolver shooter I have struggled with reloads. I have gotten proficient with my left handed charter however my 642 takes some work. I was considering the 442 which is basically the same as my 642 but it accepts moon clips.

I figure this might help speed up my reloads and may result in me carrying the revolver more often.

Anyone want to weigh in on reliability, cylinder bind, reload with a moon clip vs a speed loader etc?

Regards, Vermonter
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Old January 5, 2013, 09:16 PM   #2
Technosavant
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The 442 does not necessarily accept moon clips. The main difference between the 642 and 442 is the finish; the 642 is a clear "stainless" like anodizing, the 442 is dark.

There are variants which are indeed cut for moon clips. However, the only moon clipped wheelgun I have is a 327... eight rounds of .357 in an N frame is a little different than 5 of .38spl in a J. Generally, though, it works well. Still, I'm not sure it's THAT much better than a good speedloader.
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Old January 5, 2013, 09:30 PM   #3
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I have two .45ACP moon clipped revolvers, and love the moon clips for ease of use, they are just like loaded magazines. They are probably not much if any better/faster than speedloaders, but they are a lot cheaper.
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Old January 5, 2013, 10:29 PM   #4
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Wheel guns are very lefty friendly. To reload, open the cylinder latch with your trigger finger then push open the cylinder with your right thumb. The right thumb goes through the frame window and right fingers wrap around the frame to hold the cylinder open and support the rest of the gun. Right index finger pushes the ejector rod. Reload with the left hand, snap her shut with the right fingers while transfering back to the left hand and your good to go. Never tried a reload from a right hander's perspective but I don't see how it could be any faster.
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:46 AM   #5
ArkieVol
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one handed use...

I am right handed and lost the use of my left hand due to nerve damage. I use revolvers exclusively and have wondered how difficult one handed moon clip use would be.

I have considered buying a .45 acp revolver and know that 45 acp rimmed ammo is available, but I have wondered how I could load and unload the clips themselves with one hand.

Shooting and reloading the gun is no problem. I can easily open the cylinder and eject spent brass with my right hand, hold the gun upside down and, with the cylinder open, tuck it under my left arm and reload with speed loaders or strips.

My question concerns only attaching the moon clips to the cartridges and removal of same . Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
JJ
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:15 AM   #6
MrBorland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermonter
As a lefty revolver shooter I have struggled with reloads. I have gotten proficient with my left handed charter however my 642 takes some work. I was considering the 442 which is basically the same as my 642 but it accepts moon clips.
Exactly where in the reload process are you having trouble? If it's the mechanics of opening the cylinder and/or hitting the ejector, moon clips won't offer much help.

BTW, having the cylinder of your 642 machined to work with or without moonclips would be a lot cheaper than buying a 442.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkieVol
I have wondered how I could load and unload the clips themselves with one hand.
BMT mooner/demooner. I saw one being used at a match, and it looks like it can be easily used 1-handed.

http://www.bmtequipped.com/products.php
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Old January 6, 2013, 08:16 AM   #7
Viper225
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I have the 442 Pro Moon Clip you speak of. The only source I have seen for them is Bud's.

I carry my 442 mostly in a Lobo Pancake holster, with either 1 or 2 reloads on the belt infront of the holster. I carry them in the California Competition Works Shoot A Moon Carriers "SAM".
http://www.demooner.com/
The website could use a little navigation help. When you find the California Competition Works revolver stuff, you will be looking for SAM for 5 Shot J Frame. They are a spring steel with center post carrier. Just like the grown up versions for 686's and 627's. They work great and are bullet proof.

Another good thing about a Moon Clip J Frame. With a conventionally loaded J Frame you can have issues with the short ejector rod not popping all the rounds out. It is possible to get an empty under the star. This is a bad situation under stress. This cannot happen using moon clips. If they hang, just grap the cluster of 5 and jerk them free.

Moon Clip Reload Speed.
I have reloaded J Frames with loose rounds, Speed Strips, HKS speed loaders, Safariland Comp I speed loaders, as well as moon clips., so I do have experiance with all methods except the Jet Loader which most would consider a little large for concealed carry.
If you practice reloading with HKS, Comp I and Moon Clip reloads, and then do a speed test starting with the cylinder open and the loading device in hand you will discover that the Moon Clip is the fastest method of reload, but not by much. The long slender 38's are not as easy to hit the holes with as a 6 shot 45 or 6 Shot 40/10mm. Where the Moon Clip Reload Speed really picks up is when the reload is carried on the belt in the Shoot a Moon spring steel carrier. The Moon Clip Reload carried in a SAM will always be in the same location. The reload will always be oriented nose down when you grab it. And the Moon Clip reload is fast to get a hold of.
I have never seen a J Frame speed loader carrier that was acceptable for a speed reload. I am not saying one is not made, just that I have never seen it.
If anyone shoots in BUG Matches reloading with a Jet Loader, I would like to hear how the Jet Loaders are carried as well.

Ammunition: The TK Moon Clips supplied with the 442 Pro Moon Clip are the thickness that accepts Remington, Federal, and Speer ammunition, and some others. Winchester has too thin an undercut under the rim for this thickness of moon clip.

Loading Methods: The 442 Pro Moon Clip CAN be loaded with Loose Rounds, by Speed Strip, by Speed Loader, as well as by Moon Clip. So you do not have to use the Moon Clips to make it work.

Loading and Unloading Tools: It is best to use one. I have the Delux Moon Clip Tool with Arbors for 38, 40/10mm, as well as 45acp. This tool works well for loading and stripping moon clips.
http://www.mooncliptool.com/

One Handed Operation of Tool: This is doable. You might need to make a stand for the tool to keep it steady and at the correct angle to accept ammunition.
For removing the cases a board with a Peg should work to hold the moon clips steady. Drop the center hole of the moon clip over the peg. You can now pop them off with a section of 1/2" copper pipe or 1/2" EMT Conduit.

That is about all I can think of.

Bob

Last edited by Viper225; January 6, 2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Old January 6, 2013, 08:32 AM   #8
giaquir
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There is a revolver that the cylinder opens on the opposite side
but for the life of me,I can't remember the model.
I imagine it "died" as quickly as it was "born"
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Old January 6, 2013, 09:22 AM   #9
Vermonter
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Reload issue

My issue is the HKS loaders spin with my cylinder a bit before dropping the rounds. I figure at that point the moon clip would be ready to shut the cylinder thus creating less hang up.
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Old January 6, 2013, 09:28 AM   #10
Viper225
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Vermonter
The Safariland Comp I is released by just pushing it down. The problem being One handed would be reloading them. That might be a problem.
EDITED: Just thinking one might have a 5 shot loading block made to hold the rounds Nose Down in a cluster. With them held captive you could then probably push down and twist the Safariland Comp I knob to lock the rounds in place.


The Left Handed Clyinder I believe is a Charter Arms.

Bob

Last edited by Viper225; January 6, 2013 at 07:57 PM.
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Old January 6, 2013, 11:26 AM   #11
pete2
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I shoot a 625 revolver and a 586 and a 15. The moon clip is faster to reload with. The Safariland is the fastest for the 15 and the 586. The HKS would be better for me if it turned the opposite direction to release the ammo. It must have been designed by a lefty. A loading block to holds the cartridges nose down makes loading any of the speedloaders easier to load. I've never seen one for the J frame but it wouldn't be hard to make one.
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Old January 6, 2013, 11:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
There is a revolver that the cylinder opens on the opposite side
but for the life of me,I can't remember the model.
I think Charter Arms still makes a revolver designed for southpaws.
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:26 PM   #13
drail
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Moonclips designed for rimmed cartridges like the .38 are very thin compared to moonclips designed for rimless cartridges like the .45 ACP and are much more susceptible to damage from beng bent. It only takes a little bit of a bend to start causing problems. I am not trying to steer you away from moonclips but only want to make you aware of the differences. I have used 45 ACP moonclipped guns for many years in competition and am a huge fan. ,45 ACP moonclips also allow for a lot more "wiggle" of the rounds in the clip which helps the rounds self align with the chambers easily. On the moonclips for rimmed cartridges they are held more rigidly and have much less "wiggle". You have to get them lined up a little more carefully before they will drop in.
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Old January 6, 2013, 03:00 PM   #14
sandbag
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Moonclips

I use steel moonclips loaded only once and never unloaded for defensive carry.
I use flexible polycarbonate ones for range/plate shoots where a lost round can only be embarrassing,not deadly They're MUCH easier on the fingers-no tool required for unloading.
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:37 AM   #15
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There are a couple of places that will machine any cylinder to work with moon clips, here is one.

http://www.tkcustom.com/

I have the 640 Pro that uses clips and order the thin ones to use with other ammo. the great thing is that they are made of spring steel, if you bend one put it between two pieces of steel and smack it with a hammer.
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:29 PM   #16
Vermonter
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For clarity

1. I am not the one doing this one handed that was another poster. Glad you guys are able to suggest things and help him though.

2. My speed loaders require me to twist to release the cartridges. If I were to be able to simply push down like with the safariland this might just be a non issue. I will have to look into those.

My only reason to remotly consider this is to achieve a faster reload. If I am going to possibly achieve that but cause my Gun to be less reliable with a bent moon clip then it is a no brainer which way I would go.

Regards, Vermonter
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Old January 7, 2013, 02:20 PM   #17
MrBorland
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Vermonter -

Consider buying a single safariland push-type to evaluate before making your decision.

While twist-type speedloaders aren't generally as fast as push-type, it sounds like at least some of your problem is technique related, and may not need moons to resolve.

For example, are you 1) transferring the gun to your weak hand & inserting rounds with your strong hand, or 2) holding the gun in strong hand & inserting with your weak? If you're gonna use speedloaders, push- or twist-type, I'd recommend #1. In the case of push-type loaders, your weak hand supports the cylinder & yoke, so there's much less stress transferred to the yoke screw, and the yoke screw is the only thing holding the cylinder to the gun when it's open. And in the case of twist-type loaders, your thumb, index and middle fingers can hold the cylinder while the rounds are released.
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Old January 12, 2013, 04:13 PM   #18
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Charter does indeed make the "Southpaw" revolver, as an almost mirror image of its regular line. It's cylinder opens to the right and the cylinder latch is on the right side of it's frame. They're great fun to shoot and even more fun to hand to a "Northpaw" and watch them try to operate it.
I'm a little baffled as to why you're having trouble shooting a revolver as a lefty. I've been doing it for decades, and never noticed any particular problem. Southpaws tend to be pretty ingenious at finding ways around the backwards products the world keeps throwing at us.
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Old January 13, 2013, 07:02 AM   #19
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Has anyone inadvertantly dumped the rounds with the push type speedloaders? I have no experience with them in spite of being no spring chicken.
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Old January 13, 2013, 09:02 AM   #20
4V50 Gary
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Never lost rounds with a spring type speed loader. However, most of mine are HKS. The key is practice. Do it.
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Old January 13, 2013, 12:30 PM   #21
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Nope. Never lost rounds in a spring type. the release catch on mine is in the middle of the loader and not generally accessible or easily caught on anything. The one's I use have always been flawless if I do my part.
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Old January 14, 2013, 02:33 PM   #22
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To expound on what Dframe said.

You have to work at unloading a safariland speed loader. The comp 1, and comp 2's do not have a spring, you are thinking of the competition speed loaders.
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