The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 10, 2013, 05:46 PM   #1
Evad
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2011
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Posts: 36
Savage 10 FCP-K, as good as it sounds??

I have looked at one of these in .308, it comes with a 24" fluted barrel and a muzzle brake. I've done lots of online research about it, and for 850 bucks, these things seem too good to be true. I'm a heck of a shot with a rifle (self taught) and I figure its time to really test myself and get out to 800 or 1000 yards, so naturally that justifies me buying a nice long-range rifle. I've decided on a 308, because after lots of research, it seems to be the most logical choice. I've thought about something bigger like a 300 Win Mag, but when comparing the ballistics to a 308 it seems like, even though it shoots a bit farther, its less accurate all around. I've even looked into 338 Lapua, but at 190 bucks per 20 match-grade rounds, that is absolutely flippin' ridiculous. I am not Bill Gates. Anyway, does anybody have a 10 FCP-K? Are they as accurate as all the claims? I'm inclined to believe that it is, but I wanted to ask personally.
__________________
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
Evad is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 07:21 PM   #2
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,899
No, I don't own one...
But do own other Savages that we shoot long-range; and yes, the 10-FCP has been a stalwart of the Savage line for years.

You should seriously consider (= buy it) the one with the McMillan stock for long-range shooting.

The .308 is a capable round up to 1K, but there are other choices that trump it- and should be considered carefully IF you handload.

The .308 has the benefit of huge popularity, and extensive factory ammo- including factory match ammo, which is a must have for your intended use.

But, if you're really serious about long range, you need to start handloading.
Both to allow you to shoot more, for less $$ and just as importantly, to give you the flexibility in caliber selection not common commercially.

You can handload just about any 6mm- .30 cal round (except the huge powder capacity magnums) for about $.50 round for MATCH, best you can get, ammo... Ten bucks a box... half, or less, than what you'd pay for commercial match. Wouldn't take long for reloading equipment to pay for itself... and then some.

If I were in your shoes, did not handload, and had no intention of doing so, I'd look at the Savage 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmore. Hornady has very good match ammo for this, and it's reasonably priced- and ballistically superior- to the .308 at range.

Same goes for the .260, and (my personal choice) the 7mm-.08.

The 10 FCP is a great rifle, just wouldn't be my first choice for 800-1000 yard shooting.
tobnpr is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 08:35 PM   #3
Evad
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2011
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Posts: 36
I've heard all good things about the 6.5 Creedmoor, but I understand its considerably more rare than the .308.

I'd really love to get into handloading, but I know very little about it. Is it a good thing to just buy up the equipment and dive in? Or is it extremely sensitive?

I looked at the LRP on the savage website, the msrp is less than 200 dollars above the FCP, which is good news. I might just take your advice, this is good info. thanks!
__________________
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
Evad is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 09:06 PM   #4
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 1,561
Quote:
I'd really love to get into handloading, but I know very little about it. Is it a good thing to just buy up the equipment and dive in? Or is it extremely sensitive?
It's not rocket science. I just started and have found it to be quite enjoyable. I did find that there's alot more to case prep than I expected, but it's not hard at all to work up an accurate load. You may have a hard time finding components for 7.62 (308) right now. I don't see this problem resolving until this time next year. Even if the run on everything stopped tomorrow, it would take several months for distributors to replenish their stocks. I'd look for another semi mainstream caliber that doesn't have "evil rifle" attached to it... think .30-06 if you can stand a long action or .243 if you need a short action... both can get you to 1k without much work (243 will be a test of your wind calls). Dies and components for these shouldn't be too hard to find now while everything else is going nuts. Match ammo can be found in both calibers if you aren't going to reload. Of course, in times of good nothing can beat .308 for availability. If you can wait and deal with an ammo shortage for a year than you may be better served. Plus match ammo may still be pretty easy to find because of expense.

BTW, the rifle you're looking at is good to go. I'd buy it if I had the money.
5whiskey is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 09:54 PM   #5
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 2,238
Dont buy a 308 for thousand yard. You will regret it.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 10:42 PM   #6
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,899
Evad,

After my sons and I got into target shooting, the NEED to reload was apparent for me.

Pure economics. 100 rounds (min.) each x 3 each trip to the range (usually monthly, more if we can) = ridiculous $$ at a buck a round for match ammo.

I dove right in with a progressive press because of my volume. A single stage, like a Rock Chucker, would be all you need. A few hundred bucks tops, and you're good to go.

The process is very simple, as is the equipment. A manual is a good start, although honestly, everything you need- tutorials ("how to"), and load data- is all online now, making paper manuals about obsolete.

Like I said, the .308 is a great round, but not my first choice for 1000 yards.

Here's an idea...

If you're reluctant, or don't want to get into handloading just yet, get the 10 FCP- with the McMillan stock in .308.

IMO, the AccuStock just won't give you what you need for 1000 yard shooting when compared to the McMillan- and it's a fairly priced upgrade for a top-of-the-line stock.

When you're ready to reload, get a barrel nut wrench, a set of barrel blocks, and a go gauge- and change the barrel to a .260, 7-08, 6.5, or whatever floats your boat after you've gotten your feet wet.

I'm about to do exactly that on my son's Savage .308 (.260 barrel just arrived last week), after doing it on my own last month. Barrel changes on a Savage- and reloading- are really that easy, and nothing to be intimidated over.

Especially when you've got the wealth of knowledge from guys more than willing to help on forums such as this....

Good luck, let us know what you end up going with....
tobnpr is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 11:13 PM   #7
Dan Newberry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Wytheville, VA
Posts: 215
I'm a fan of the .308, though I do concur that 6.5's are easier to shoot at longer ranges. Most of the comparisons you find between the .308 and 6.5's and 7mm's are usually showing the .308 using 168's at 2600 or 175's at that same speed. But if you look at some of the other bullets you might use in the .308, it can close the gap significantly...

A very interesting comparison is to consider the .308 pushing the 155 grain Lapua Scenar at 2850 fps (easily and safely done)... this brings it into the realm of wind drift and trajectory with sensibly driven 6.5's and 7mm's on the .308 parent case.

That said, I've shot the lighter bullets from my .308's at 1000+ yards and have found that the heavier bullets still seem to shoot more accurately--by a small margin anyway. This is likely because of the 10 twist of my Savage .308 barrels.

In my LE2B Savage (basically a McMillan stocked 10FP) I have actually gone to a 200 grain Matchking, pushed by 43 grains of Varget (a bit over max, but proven safe even in 95 degree weather in my rifle)... this load makes right on 2600 fps of MV, and hits significantly harder (about 25% harder) at 1000 yards than lighter .308's and non-magnum 6.5's.



Heavier bullets like the 200 SMK and Berger's 185 grain VLD's at around 2650 fps (Varget will do this easily) deliver a heck of a wallop at 1000 yards, compared to the smaller calibers.

So the .308 isn't dead--nor will it be for a long while. It's got lots of options, for those who want to "expand its horizons" so to speak.

For most of my shooting--even to 1000 yards--I enjoy the gentle recoil of 175's and 178's (Hornady) at around 2600 fps MV. It's true, you'll need to get a little better at calling the wind correctly with bullets which drift farther, but it can be done.

Here are some targets I've shot while testing various bullets at 1000+ yards from my Savage LE2B (McMillan stock, heavy 26" 10 twist barrel)...


The Nosler Ballistic Tips in 180 grain weight are good hunting bullets, but appear to have a lower BC than Nosler's published .500 number. These were dropping well below the point of aim, and a couple of them drifted left off this target...

Good vertical dispersion on this 175 SMK load means it's got a low velocity extreme spread... gusting winds took some of the shots off the board to the left, but this load in good wind conditions is a solid 1000 yard performer.

Only 3 of these 7 shots of Lapua Sceanar, 155 grain weight, stayed on the target board. The three shot group that did form is respectable, and I'd assume the other shots would have been vertically speaking with these three... but alas, the wind got them, so who really knows. :-)


another test load from one of my .308's at 1040 yards... this one was the Sierra 175 grain Matchking with 42.4 grains of IMR 4895, a favorite load recipe I use often.

So the .308 can certainly do a good job for you at long ranges...

Dan
__________________
www.BANGSTEEL.com
Practical Long Range Rifle Courses...
Optimal Charge Weight handload consulting
Dan Newberry is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 01:28 PM   #8
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,899
Nice shooting, Dan...

For those of you that might not be familiar with Dan's load development technique, I hope he doesn't mind if I give him a thumbs-up plug...

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/
tobnpr is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 03:00 PM   #9
Dan Newberry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Wytheville, VA
Posts: 215
thanks for the kind words...

For the 6.5 fans, I would be remiss if I failed to mention that in pretty much all the long range matches we've had since last fall, 6.5's have won the match, and placed in the top 3 pretty much always...

One guy shoots a Remington SAUM, in 6.5 caliber... 140's at around 3300 fps... it's a great shooting rig. Hard to beat him... but in December's match, a standard 260 beat him by only 5 points.

Another fellow shooting 87 VMAX's from a Savage .243 has really been turning in some good work as well. He made a blunder at the 1040 yard plate last time by not dialing in enough elevation to compensate for a 20 degree temperature drop that had occurred during the match, and he failed to score well on that plate... otherwise, he'd have probably taken first place.
__________________
www.BANGSTEEL.com
Practical Long Range Rifle Courses...
Optimal Charge Weight handload consulting
Dan Newberry is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 05:18 PM   #10
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,780
Don't mean to steal this post,but i have to do this

Dan-Thanks for your article on long range load development- Has been a great asset to me for 7 different rifle now. Use it like the bible
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 05:19 PM   #11
Evad
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2011
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Posts: 36
Nice shooting, Dan...

I second that. This is the reason I joined this forum, guys. Theres nothing that can compete with good advice from experienced individuals. I think I've decided on the 12-LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor. I would start with a .308, but they dont make an LRP chambered for it, and the price difference on the ammo isn't totally out of the ballpark. Now all I gotta do is wait for the paycheck to come in, and I'll be good to go. Next is the glass. I've looked at the Triji Accupoints, and for a long range scope, those reticles are way too fat IMO. Thinking more along the lines of a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x 50 FFP. A nightforce would be great, but once again, pricey pricey. If I get into the long-range game seriously, I'll spring for one, but for now the vortex seems a good start. Thanks again!
__________________
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
Evad is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 05:20 PM   #12
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,780
Evad--Take a look at Sightron Scopes.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 05:49 PM   #13
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,899
Quote:
Thinking more along the lines of a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x 50 FFP
Vortex fan here, own a couple- SFP, though...
Be sure you understand the difference between the two...FFP scopes are not my choice for long range because the reticle obscures the target at high magnification- and you just mentioned you have a concern about reticle size. Just sayin'...be sure...it's a matter of personal preference. The Viper 6.5-20 is a GREAT SFP optic for hundreds less. The Trigi's are a hunting optic...not geared for LR target use.

Whatever scope you decide on, be sure you have enough "up" elevation adjustment available. Usually isn't an issue with higher-end optics, and a 6.5 caliber boolit, just be sure to check (Vortex is never an issue, plenty of internal adjustment). When you go for a base, best to go with a 20 minute down-angle. No downside, and the extra adjustment is there in case you ever need it.

Good luck with the LRP. Like I said, that would be my choice if I didn't handload (and heck, a great one, regardless)- and when you start, it'll be that much cheaper to shoot.
tobnpr is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 07:36 PM   #14
Evad
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2011
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Posts: 36
AHA! ffp stands for "first focal plane," and sfp stands for "second focal plane." I guess I didnt even think about that when I looked on the vortex site.
__________________
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
Evad is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 04:59 AM   #15
Fargazer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2010
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 466
Let me chuck in one other possible option. Savage has a custom department you can call: (413) 568-7001 ext 4399 for Special Orders. I once asked what it would cost to get a 10 FCP-K in 6.5 Creedmore, and I was told it would be somewhere south of $200 extra.

Basically, if you see a Savage model in a given caliber, you should be able to get it in any related caliber they use (even in another model) for a minimal charge. The 10 FCP-K comes in .223 and .308; that implies you should be able to get a special order for .260, .243, 7mm-08, 6.5 Creedmore - any cartridge in the .223 or .308 family that Savage makes a gun in.

Of course, with the recent run on guns and supplies, a custom order might take a bit longer than usual...
__________________
NRA Life Member
Fargazer is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 02:06 PM   #16
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,899
The LRP has the target action- which is different (superior) than the standard action, including the Target AccuTrigger. You can also opt for a right bolt, left port configuration which is preferred by many target shooters.

Not apples and apples screwing on a 6.5 barrel onto the standard short action receiver, which is the 10 series...

They're different animals.
tobnpr is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 03:00 PM   #17
Evad
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2011
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Posts: 36
I called Gun World today, they have a store a half hour from my house, and they dont stock an LRP, but said they could order one in for me at right around MSRP.
BTW, tobnpr, my mom lives in Clearwater. Small world...
__________________
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
Evad is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 09:41 PM   #18
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 2,238
MSRP on a Savage is a huge markup.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 13, 2013, 01:16 AM   #19
Strauss
Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2007
Posts: 74
Any other input on the 10FCP-K model itself? I'm also looking into that specific rifle and was looking forward to hearing others opinions on it.
Strauss is offline  
Old January 13, 2013, 01:49 AM   #20
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 1,962
Oh how I wish I could tell you all about mine . I put half down on it then all this crazy panic buying started . I have not had a chance to pay it off yet cus my funds are going to reloading and other possible AWB items . I hope to have it home with papa next month . If your still in the market I'll let you know what I think .

I'm having a hard time not just going and getting it but I must prioritize

__________________
As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old
Metal god is offline  
Old February 16, 2013, 05:29 PM   #21
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 1,962
Im taking mine out on the 25th . I'll let you know how she does

I will write a review when I get back from the range .
.
__________________
As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old

Last edited by Metal god; February 16, 2013 at 05:36 PM.
Metal god is offline  
Old February 17, 2013, 11:29 AM   #22
WWWJD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2011
Location: Central KY
Posts: 509
Reloading? Dive in. Head first. It's worth every penny. I started reloading for my .308, and I haven't saved a dime, but I sure shoot a heck of a lot more!

Regarding .308 for 1k; to each his own. It's well documented that it's capable of going to 1k and beyond assuming you have enough range in your optic for hold-overs / dopes, and can make the wind call. Others do it better, meaning less hold-over, less holds for wind, etc. etc.. but there aren't a lot of calibers that won't make it to a grand. Pick your poison.

Heavy bullets in fast twist rates are a requirement; again, well documented. However (maybe you can speak to these, Dan), I've got some Berger VLD hybrid 168gr that are supposed to be the cat's meow. Anybody else here tried these?
__________________
~Mark

NRA fo Life Member
WWWJD is offline  
Old February 17, 2013, 08:37 PM   #23
Dan Newberry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Wytheville, VA
Posts: 215
"Regarding .308 for 1k; to each his own. It's well documented that it's capable of going to 1k and beyond assuming you have enough range in your optic for hold-overs / dopes, and can make the wind call."

Good point... shooting the .308 at 1000 yards is not as hard as many make it sound. You have to learn to dope with with any cartridge--no matter how efficient the bullet is. If we wish to avail ourselves of the flatter trajectory and reduced wind drift of longer, skinnier bullets, that's all well and good--but if we fudge the wind call, we're nearly as apt to miss with a 6.5/284 as with a .308 win.

On our last long range match, I shot my 10FP (LE2B) Savage .308 against mostly 6.5's and on the steel plates at ranges from 350 to 1040 yards, I outscored all of the 6.5's in the match--and many of the guys were very familiar with the course. I say that not to indicate there's anything all that special about me--because there's not; it's just that knowing your rifle and knowing how to dope the wind is the key. Your cartridge of choice is not really as important.

Dan
__________________
www.BANGSTEEL.com
Practical Long Range Rifle Courses...
Optimal Charge Weight handload consulting
Dan Newberry is offline  
Old February 17, 2013, 10:39 PM   #24
Mezzanine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 103
Well i own a 6.5 Creedmoor and ammo isnt flowing right now. Before the scare it was a 45 minute drive to the store that'd have all i needed on the shelf but its been sold out since. Got a case online in december havent seen any more available since. 26 bucks a box is what i pay also. Hopefully they get some in stock for when the snow melts... Only throwing that out there because ammo cost/availability is as important as rifle availability.

Last edited by Mezzanine; February 17, 2013 at 11:30 PM.
Mezzanine is offline  
Old February 17, 2013, 11:23 PM   #25
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 1,962
Quote:
knowing your rifle and knowing how to dope the wind is the key. Your cartridge of choice is not really as important.
^^^ this is what I have learned to believe . For a while I was planing on getting a 300 win mag or the 7mm mag for long range shooting . I also wanted to get a 40cal pistol an AK , something in 45-70 . the list of cartridges was growing fast and I just stopped that thought proses and decided to stick to a few good common calibers just to keep it simple and cheaper . Thats why I bought the FCP-K in 308 . It's all I need and it will out shoot me for a while . I already have a Ruger American in 308 and if a semi auto 308 comes along at a good price I'll pick one up . I just don't need or want 15 different cals right now . I've got 9mm ,.22 , 223 , 5.56 , 308 , 12ga and I think I'm going to stick with that group of calibers for a while .
__________________
As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old
Metal god is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13062 seconds with 9 queries