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Old January 4, 2013, 06:41 AM   #1
MR.BERG
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Value of rifle

Hello,

I am new at this forum and are seeking som help regarding regarding and old rifle from my grandfather.
Anyone out there who can recognize this weapon and if it has any value?

You help will be highly appreciated.

Mr. Berg
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File Type: jpg Rifle MP 2.jpg (21.9 KB, 131 views)
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Old January 4, 2013, 09:30 AM   #2
Baba Louie
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Mr Berg, Welcome to TFL.

Can you please take a good photo of the lock side faceplate showing hammer, etc.? You stand a better chance of identification if there are any markings there or at least someone can note similarities with other percussion and/or modified actions in that manner.

and again, welcome. A lot of people here know a lot of useful information (I'm not one of them mind you )
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Old January 4, 2013, 02:36 PM   #3
MR.BERG
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Thank you, senior member!

I have taken some more detailed pictures, but unfortunately can not find any more markings than the one beside the barrell.

M.P-V.D.A.-VII -45 , 196/1966

You can also see on the picture of the shaft a carving of the number 413.

I really hope someone are able to recognize this item and it`s history.

Thank you again for giving me your time and effort regarding this matter.
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Old January 4, 2013, 04:00 PM   #4
jonnyc
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Where are you and the rifle located? That might give a clue to its identity.
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Old January 4, 2013, 04:07 PM   #5
MR.BERG
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Oh, sorry...

We are both located in Norway!
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Old January 4, 2013, 04:20 PM   #6
tahunua001
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well I have come up blank, no references to a breech loading rifle that fits your description any markings. if the 1966 is a date then that suggests a reproduction but in the condition was probably buried to make it age more and turn it into a fake antique rifle. if the 1966 is a serial number then it is probably a very old(pre 20th century) breech loader. my best guess would be italian.
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Old January 5, 2013, 10:41 AM   #7
chiefr
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From what I can tell, there are no markings on the lockplate. The markings on the barrel do nothing to aid in identification. The 1966 date is confusing. Most dates on classic rifles I have seen are on the lockplate or the barrel near the breech.
Perhaps the only way to positively ID the rifle would be to remove the barrel and lockplate from the stock to examine for any markings. However If you are not familiar with this proceedure, you could easily damage the wood, screws or other parts as they are more than likely rusted in place.
I would leave the rifle alone.
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Old January 5, 2013, 11:47 AM   #8
tater134
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It looks like an 1853 Enfield but could be some sort of copy without any British markings.
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Old January 5, 2013, 12:18 PM   #9
tahunua001
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I think that tater may be correct, it is possibly a reproduction 1853 enfield musket but the bands look wrong from all the pictures I've seen and there should be a crown behind the hammer as well as other british proofs... in any event it's probably a fake but I know very little on the subject and could very well end up being wrong.
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Old January 5, 2013, 08:51 PM   #10
James K
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The lockplate and bolster indicate that it is a British Enfield, probably an Model 1853, or a reproduciton thereof. Unless someone can decipher the barrel markings, don't know what other information would be available.

It was probably a rifle musket originally, then maybe converted to a shotgun. The wire wrapping in lieu of a band is obviously not original.

The modern musket nipple does indicate that some recent owner wanted to fire the old gun, but I would hesitate to do so due to its present condition.

Jim
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Old January 7, 2013, 02:57 AM   #11
MR.BERG
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Thank you, Guys! I will investigate this a little further based on your info.
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Old January 10, 2013, 08:41 PM   #12
highpower3006
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What it reminds me of is an obsolete military arm that was cut down for the use of the native populations in places like Africa.

Similar arms, only in flintlock, were sold by the thousands to native American Indians in the 19th century and are typically found in similar condition. The general condition of this arm strikes me as one that was used much, and cleaned/cared for little. The wire band on the stock looks primitive enough to support this theory.

As to the numbers and/or dates it carries, I would think that they are most likely some kind of importers stamps placed on it when it was brought back to Europe.
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Old January 12, 2013, 07:27 PM   #13
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I agree on that it looks like an Enfield - the lock and bolster sure look like an Enfield as do the profile of the butt stock. I'm not an expert on Enfields nor what contracts that the Brits may have had with supplying other governments. I do know that I have seen originals without any lock markings. I once bid on an Enfield (probably 45 years ago) at an auction that was unmarked on the lock plate but had a wrist inlay indicating it was property of Peru. A lot of these "surplus" guns were sold off and ended up as "trade guns".

As a side note - I once shot with a fellow on a NSSA team who introduced me to a fellow on another team as he wanted me to see the rifle he was shooting. It was an original Enfield. They guy had been in Viet Nam and they had run across a cache of arms in a tunnel. They brought out two original Enfields - 2 banded - that were in mint condition and still in the grease. He cabbaged on to one of them but the other went in to the pile of arms and was burned. In the cache he said that there was also an original 1866 Winchester - an engraved presentation piece - that an officer grabbed on to. Probably these arms dated back to the French - who knows how they got there. Surplus arms ended up all over the world - and let's not forget Bannermans who sold thousands of surplus arms all over the world.
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