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Old January 12, 2013, 01:13 PM   #26
Glenn E. Meyer
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Venture has a conspiracy show.

We need experts like Dave Kopel or the Shapiro guy who was on Morgan's show.

C level celebrities do nothing.
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Old January 12, 2013, 01:14 PM   #27
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Pushing Back

The message I came away with, even though a bit over the top, is that it's time to stop cowering behind our gun safes, stop opologizing for being gun owners. At least, mentally prepare ourselve for a little push-back.. ..

Be Safe !!!
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Old January 12, 2013, 01:28 PM   #28
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In the good 'ol USA not only do we have the to keep and bear arms, we also have the most important right of all and that is free speech. The problem is some speech by some citizens is totally ignorant if not totally insane. While James Yeager might not be insane he does appear to be unstable and seems to become unhinged easily.
The problem with someone like him as a spokesman for our cause is he will be used as a typical example of the gun enthusiast by the anti-gun forces and why gun control is needed. What we need right now is rational discussion and a firm but rational stand on our side, not threats and total meltdowns.
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Old January 12, 2013, 01:42 PM   #29
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Making a living as an actor on a conspiracy show is hardly a blow to Gov. Ventura's credibility. Once upon a time we had a president who made movies with chimpanzees. The point is a person good with language can make a very effective speaker for our cause, much like the afore mentioned president.
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Old January 12, 2013, 01:50 PM   #30
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That president was in favor of the Brady Bill and the AWB.

Rather listen to the chimp.

We need experts who are credible. Ventura might appeal to the choir but that's it.
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Old January 12, 2013, 01:53 PM   #31
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Alan Gura is a proven speaker.

Tom Selleck has shown that he maintains calm and class, and speaks eloquently, during hostile interviews about gun ownership.

A younger, well-spoken woman, such as Tamara, would not have to be a celebrity to do our side some good.

Emily Miller, the reporter from DC, could do us a lot of good.

We should ask Emily to try to appear on some of these shows.
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Old January 12, 2013, 02:11 PM   #32
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Once again we see the cognative dissonence that allows people to think that no matter what your private opinion, once you put it on UTube (or anything like that) it doesn't become a matter of public record. It does. Millions can see it. Including lawyers, prosecutors, and the indviduals threatened in a rant.

No matter what you discuss amongst friends, who know you and know you are not serious, when you put those same words out in public, even though it may be your right to do so, you risk the consequences.

Words have life. They have weight and meaning, in both the literal and legal sense. Saying in public, on the record, that you want to kill someone is a really poor idea. Even saying you feel like killing someone is foolish, particularly in these times. Saying things like that about policitians and or other public figures might just be a criminal offense.

Everybody goes on a rant, now and then. Fine. I get that. Do it myself sometimes. Some people are little more than a bundle of rants. I get that too. I just don't get why people can think they can say or do stupid (sometimes even illegal) things on Utube and get away with it?
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Old January 12, 2013, 02:55 PM   #33
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Making a living as an actor on a conspiracy show is hardly a blow to Gov. Ventura's credibility.
Have you seen "Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura"? He is the host, not an actor. He has co-authored two books on conspiracy theories as well. It would appear that he really believes a lot of the stuff he investigates.

And, he is Jesse "The Body" Ventura and NOT Jesse "The Brain" Ventura, LOL.

He speaks positively about the 2nd Amendment, but Glenn's categorization of him is probably on the kind side. He is better than Yeager, but that isn't saying much given Yeager's history and continued controversy. However, Yeager has managed to make headlines around the world as an idiot threatening to kill people.
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Old January 12, 2013, 03:42 PM   #34
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There are two paths to convincing people.

One is a rational path and the other is an emotional path.

One problem with some of the gun rights advocates is that they think the emotional exemplified by Yeager or Ventura will overcome the emotional path reaction that occurs in many after Sandy Hook.

A rational path analysis of why we should have guns may work on some capable of analysis. The emotional won't.

Some are already convinced of gun rights so listening to a Yeager or Ventura appeals to them emotionally.

That is not going to work with many.
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Old January 12, 2013, 03:42 PM   #35
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A younger, well-spoken woman, such as Tamara, would not have to be a celebrity to do our side some good.
Weapons Grade Snark may do as much harm as good...... but certainly less harm than Mr. Yeager.
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Old January 12, 2013, 05:50 PM   #36
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I don't agree with what Yeager said. BUT I don't think he crossed any lines into illegality. Therefore, what right did TN have to pull his permit?

Does the state of TN view access to the permit as a right or a privilege?

What other unpopular opinions could get me stripped of my carry permit in that or any other state?

This is why we need a statement on a right to carry from the US Supremes. It won't be just California, New York, Illinois and the like that will be affected.
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Old January 12, 2013, 07:04 PM   #37
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The decision to suspend Yeager’s handgun carry permit was based on a “material likelihood of risk of harm to the public” (TCA 39-17-1352).
So not just because they didn't like his opinion. His behavior may have violated Tennessee code and hence he got suspended, not revoked, but suspended. He can and is appealing, apparently.
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Old January 12, 2013, 10:31 PM   #38
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The decision to suspend Yeager’s handgun carry permit was based on a “material likelihood of risk of harm to the public” (TCA 39-17-1352).
There was another Tennessee resident (who used to post here) who had his permit rescinded for the same reason.

"If it goes one inch further, I’m going to start killing people” is fairly unambiguous. We can debate the merits of the law that allows seizure of his permit, but that is an incredibly boneheaded thing to post in a public forum.
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Old January 12, 2013, 10:39 PM   #39
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This is not Yeager's first kerfuffle on YouTube. Not that long ago he was offering to fight duels with those who dared to question his bravery.

I wonder if that was a factor in TN's decision to revoke his CCW permit.

I can't say I have ever seen his videos, but from what I've seen about him I consider him exhibit A of the super macho gun enthusiasts who end up doing more harm to the RKBA cause than good.

It would do all of us well to keep in mind that however strong we may feel, if we're really worked up it might be good to hold back from posting anything online until our brain can overcome our emotions. This is not an issue that is going to be best fought with emotions. The pro gun control crowd is doing enough of that... we need to bring logic and calm argument to the table. Promises to shoot people flat don't belong and will definitely play into the hands of the folks seeking new bans.
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Old January 13, 2013, 11:38 AM   #40
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As far as I'm concerned, folks who go public with the "I'm gonna kill!" nonsense need to be locked away in the State Home for the Bewildered and have their food well-spiked with Valium. Program their TV for Kukla, Fran and Ollie, Captain Kangaroo and Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.

I see it as nut-case city for Sumdood to make a stupid movie of himself uttering death threats. This is not the action of a rational person.

Looks like just one step short of suicide by cop.

Believe what you want--but fake sanity as best you can.
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Old January 13, 2013, 12:42 PM   #41
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Maybe Lambchop is a little too sinister.
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Old January 13, 2013, 12:51 PM   #42
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I don't know anything about this Yeager guy, aside from his shooting his mouth off and letting his anger and frustration override what others have tried to teach him.

I try and teach my students that with each right that we so proudly trumpet comes a corresponding responsibility. My students don't really like to hear that part. Still...

I appreciate BGutzman's comment:

"If we want to stop violence then we need to hear each other as a community and reassure each other that we are a community and that we have lawful constructive ways to resolve these things. We can stop a lot of violence if we can just be silent enough to hear each other..."

Good words.
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Old January 13, 2013, 01:40 PM   #43
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When you here young men or anybody saying things like he said . Is that not the very red flags / signs of somebody that is unstable . Every time there is a a shooting there are people saying there were signs that the person was going to do something bad . If a guy saying , if you push me one inch further I'm going to start killing people is not a sign bad things to come from that individual then what is .

Yes you have the right to say what ever you want but when you start saying your going to start killing people . You no longer get to play with the big boy toys .
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Old January 13, 2013, 02:30 PM   #44
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Every time there is a a shooting there are people saying there were signs that the person was going to do something bad .
And we have discussed this very point on this forum and several have queried as to why somebody else didn't do something to keep the (sometimes only after-the-fact confirmed dangerous) person from doing harm.

So Yeager has finally said enough bizarre stuff enough times and now managed to do it in a form to catch the attention of people in a position to officially query what Yeager is saying and took the action to suspend his carry permit. That won't stop Yeager from doing what he said he would do if he decides to do so, however, but at least we are all aware that he has stated that he is on the edge.
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Old January 13, 2013, 02:44 PM   #45
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I'm not condoning for one second what he said, but this country was founded on the ideals of freedom and one of those freedoms was the right to be of different beliefs, even outrageously different beliefs. In fact most of our founders have very different beliefs than the communities they came from and that is in large part why they came here.

Where in the world is change and unhappiness never found? It doesn't happen and from a historical perspective these things go back as far as you can dig, they are not exclusive to our time.

I truly believe that gentlemen like this would not be so spun up if we were acting as a closer knit community. People act out when the feel defenseless and powerless. I think that reassurance that most of these anti gun proposals are probably going nowhere would help along with understanding that much of what may get past probably wont have a leg to stand on in the courts given recent decisions...

It could also be that he does have some sort of legitimate mental issue if we were a closer community then maybe would could help influence him to go get help. We are all human, we all make mistakes.
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Old January 13, 2013, 05:09 PM   #46
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I've enjoyed some of his videos in the past, but it's probably good that this dude has his permit suspended. Sounds like he is threatening to kill people who would be just doing their job and serving their country in enforcing any new law (that hasn't even been proposed yet). He's threatening the US Govt as well. I appreciate his service to the country, but it seems like he has more in common with terrorists than not at this point. His attitude, "see it my way or I will kill people," is not a position in a debate, it is a threat.

This guy probably shouldn't own assault weapons either. Not everyone here thinks that anyone who wants one should get to own any weapon they want. I would not favor the common man arming himself with 1000 pound bombs, nukes, or M1A Abrams tanks. I think maybe it's time that the common man go through some additional screening to own an AR type weapon and at least have it registered. Expanding the NFA to encompass military style rifles might be a decent compromise.
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Old January 13, 2013, 06:43 PM   #47
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The issues are bigger than a lot of what's been presented here so far, I think.

It's been broached in public at http://www.papadeltabravo.com/blog/?p=1581, from which I quote (so I don't have to write it myself):

First, this is all of course incredibly absurd, and stupidly makes the entire civilian friendly firearms training community look ridiculous, dangerous, and ripe for regulation and restriction. One would think that someone who has argued against open carry as a PR tool would understand the risk of this kind of negative imagery.

Like I mentioned above, I believe this was inevitable given the kind of criticism-free environment low-rent trainers steep themselves in. Having systematically purged all questioning voices from his orbit, Yeager has set himself up for this kind of public failure. Is there anyone in his circle that is willing to advise against publicly challenging people to a duel over youtube comments? Apparently not!

But most importantly, the value of all Tactical Response training has been reduced significantly. A big argument in favor of obtaining professional firearms training is that it helps the citizen win the hypothetical post-shooting legal battle by making him appear proficient, skilled and conscientious. A Tactical Response diploma is now a real liability, as any DA or ambulance chaser can paint the shooter as “taught to shoot by that crazy guy who threatens to duel people over comments on the internet”.

An instructor who understood these things and valued his reputation and the quality of his instruction over his ego and hurt feelings would immediately retract these comments and videos (better still, not make them at all), but given past events, this is not what will happen. Instead, I sadly predict that without any colleagues who respect him enough to criticize his increasingly erratic behavior, he will double down on stupid.

With so many excellent instructors around these days willing to train civilians to shoot, I wonder why people continue to pick this place. In my opinion, your money is well spent elsewhere.


This is the tough part IMHO - makes the entire civilian friendly firearms training community look ridiculous, dangerous, and ripe for regulation and restriction.

Deciding it was the better part of valor to take down a TR certificate (if I had one- I don't) off my BTDT wall and remove the class(es) from my gun school curriculum vitae is a relatively small thing by comparison IMHO.
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Old January 13, 2013, 07:53 PM   #48
Glenn E. Meyer
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That is a good point as Lee knows. Sometimes training and then more blood thirsty sounding training quotes have been brought up at trial.

Things like:

Always cheat and always win
Have a plan to kill everyone you see.

etc.

have surfaced in at least one case I know.
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Old January 17, 2013, 03:52 PM   #49
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The Patriot Nurse; YouTube.com statements...

JY's recent video clips reminds me of a online post by a woman with the website; www.thepatriotnurse.com .
She was in a YouTube clip with Yeager & went on a 2A/gun control rant.
The woman claims to work in the medical field & is a "doomsday" prepare/wide-scale disaster survival movement member.
She also put up a YouTube clip warning 2A supporters & viewers to "watch what they say".
I guess JY didn't watch her clip.

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Old January 18, 2013, 12:19 AM   #50
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It just seems to me that this Yeager fellow thinks too much of himself.

Maybe I just don't understand his sense of style or humor.
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