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Old January 6, 2013, 08:36 PM   #26
Koda94
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Quote:
koda i believe ive seen in other posts that you said you live in oregon. if that's the case there is NO current law that says you have to let an officer know your carrying if you get pulled over . although it may look to be a goodwill gesture to the officer if you do.
correct.
I have and will always consider the goodwill of the officer. But the one time I decided to exercise my privacy when I was giving a co-worker a ride to work was the one time I was asked.

FWIW, except with the co-worker incident I have always had a positive experience with LE.



([for 'lost sheep'] In the "co-worker" incident, the officer was very skittish with me, his only reason for pulling me over was my vehicle 'matched a description', but after he ran my DL he must not have liked that I had a CHL... he barely came to the window. Its been my observation that LE in Oregon is very pro gun, this guy however didn't give me that feeling though. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
I understood that your question dealt with being pulled over when you have a passenger ... one who doesn't know you carry and whom you might not wish to inform that you carry.

You write that you "understand its (sic) the better thing to do," but my response to that statement is, "Says who?" WHY is it better? Especially, why would it be better if it would be "socially" inconvenient for your passenger/client to find out that you're packin' heat?
my apologies, yes you did understand my question correctly. As far as why its better is because it makes the officer more comfortable knowing your following the law, they cant assume that just because you have a CHL you have good intentions.
In the end I don't care about what my passenger thinks about me owning and carrying a gun... I'm only trying to be considerate to their feelings, but in the end I don't care. They chose to ride with me. It might be inconvenient socially, especially if its a co-worker or client, but oh well maybe they are pro gun anyways.
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:42 AM   #27
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I've been stopped several times in Texas while carrying with passengers who did not know I was carrying. In every case, I would give the LEO my drivers license, CHL and auto insurance. The LEO would typically say (semi-discreetly) "Where is it"? I would discreetly point to it. And the LEO's response would be "Leave it there". And that was the end of it. In every case, none of the passengers ever realized what was going on between me and the LEO. If the passengers don't know you carry, then they view it as some screwball thing the LEO is doing and are none the wiser. At least, that's been my experience.
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:47 AM   #28
youngunz4life
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In Ohio you are required to tell law enforcement that you have a CHP and if you are carrying. They know when they run your licence plate that you have a concealed handgun permit but you are still required to notify them anyway..
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:58 AM   #29
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koda94
my apologies, yes you did understand my question correctly. As far as why its better is because it makes the officer more comfortable knowing your following the law, they cant assume that just because you have a CHL you have good intentions.
In the end I don't care about what my passenger thinks about me owning and carrying a gun... I'm only trying to be considerate to their feelings, but in the end I don't care. They chose to ride with me. It might be inconvenient socially, especially if its a co-worker or client, but oh well maybe they are pro gun anyways.
You got me (and perhaps a few other people) more than a little confused because the title you gave to this thread is "CCW cover blown by the law ..." That implied (to me, anyway) that you must live in a state that requires notification, or that you believed you might live in such a state.

Now that we know you DON'T live in a state requiring notification, and that it appears you already knew that ... why title the thread as you did? The law isn't requiring you to blow your cover. After opening the discussion saying you didn't want your passengers to know and bemoaning the "need" to notify, you now say you don't care if your passengers know you're carrying, and that you would notify voluntarily even though you know the law doesn't require it.

I guess I don't understand why you even started this discussion ...
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Old January 7, 2013, 10:56 PM   #30
Koda94
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Quote:
Now that we know you DON'T live in a state requiring notification, and that it appears you already knew that ... why title the thread as you did? The law isn't requiring you to blow your cover.
its my opinion that the law is requiring me to blow my cover if they are asking me if I am carrying when in the company of others, even if I am in the same vehicle as them. I'm not going to lie to an officer, and the other people in my company are public.

I admit I am not always the best at presenting a topic, especially in a web forum. I was just curious what others in the CCW community might think about this topic and if there was a good way to handle that situation.
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Old January 7, 2013, 11:23 PM   #31
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I can understand not wanting a stranger to know that you are carrying . . . in fact, in the CCW class I took in AZ, we were advised that in a potential SD situation, it depended upon the situation as to whether it is wise to advise the possible BG that you are carrying or to even show that you are carrying to avoid a possible danger to yourself - I'm not talking about a situation where you would have no choice but to draw your weapon. This discussion was in regards to "brandishing" and some changes that had been made in the law allowing a licensed individual to show his weapon or put his hand on it (remaining holstered) in regards to stemming off a situation that could lead to having to draw the weapon. In AZ, a CCW is no longer required but there are some differences in what is allowed for those that are licensed and those that are not. Example: A person who is unlicensed cannot carry a firearm in to an establishment serving liquor (bar) while an individual who is licensed, can, but they cannot consume liquor.

In the scenario the OP is presenting though, if it is friends you are talking about - my friends know that I am licensed and often carry - that is my choice. They may not agree with it but that is their choice. As long as I am following what the law prescribes, then I'm not going to worry about it - if I have a friend that disagrees with the act of carrying - then that is their problem and if they don't choose to ride with me - fine. If you are talking about a "business situation" though - many businesses have clear policies about CCW on business premises which I would assume, would extend to business activities as well - whether they are on site or off site. If you are licensed to carry - then the decision is yours if you want to go against company policies and put your job at risk.

As far as being stopped by a LE officer - regardless of who is with me, and whether it is required or not, I personally would advise the LE officer that I was carrying and if he asked me to surrender my weapon during the duration of the stop, I would ask him how he preferred me to do it and then comply. It is for his protection as well as mine. I am licensed and as such, feel it is my responsibility to act in a responsible manner - regardless of who is in the car with me and whether I want them to know that I am carrying or not.
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Old January 10, 2013, 01:05 PM   #32
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If you are uncomfortable with your friends knowing you're carrying, I think you should re-think whether you should be carrying. Everyone I interact with regularly knows I carry, and I don't hide the fact from friends. I have yet to lose a friend over it (and doubt it would ever happen). Worst case I've had was someone who was absolutely stunned by the fact that I carried, but she certainly didn't care and it didn't affect our friendship. Though, she just got her CCW recently (through me helping her along and talking to her about it) and will be carrying as soon as she can afford her new gun.

For me this is a non-issue. I'd be more embarassed by the fact that I got pulled over in front of my friends, than the fact I'm carrying. Besides, I live in state that doesn't require notification.
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Old January 11, 2013, 01:09 AM   #33
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I have yet to be pulled over since I got my CCW permit. I was with my Father in Law once when he got pulled over. At the time he did not know that I carried a gun and hoped that the officer didn't ask if there were any guns in the vehicle.

I could just picture my FIL saying "No officer, no guns in here." and me saying "well, actually officer..."
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Old January 11, 2013, 04:47 PM   #34
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Perhaps putting some pre-made notes or cards in your wallet that say you're carrying, with any details required, and your desire to keep that fact concealed from other vehicle occupants? That would still be informing the officer, and would leave it to the officer's discretion as to whether or not the passengers found out.
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Old January 11, 2013, 05:13 PM   #35
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Sidebar discussion, you dont want to disclose because you are with coworkers...why not? Does your company in general have an anti-2A stance? Might open a door to discuss 2A questions with "Joe Schmoe who dont know" anything other than the media tells him. Being in a car you pretty much have them as a captive audience for as long as you are in the car.

If your employer fired you because of your stance on the 2A is that legal so long as you were not in violation of any company policies?
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Old January 11, 2013, 05:54 PM   #36
jmr40
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Why not just hand the CCW permit to the LE offficer along with the DL. He will know and you don't have to say a word.
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Old January 11, 2013, 06:52 PM   #37
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I have been pulled over 3 times since I have had my carry license, out of the three times only one officer asked about having a gun on my person. He first asked "whats the license to carry for" since I was in a very anti-gun town, he then asked me where it was which I informed him was in a shoulder rig, then he asked me to leave it where it was. Gave me a warning and that was it.

I don't mention it unless they ask. It pops up as a redflag when the officer runs my plates, so I figure if they were so concerned about it they would bring it up.
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Old January 11, 2013, 07:04 PM   #38
ChasingWhitetail91
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I think something like an organ donor mark on your drivers license wouldn't be a bad idea. I don't like the idea of people knowing I carry concealed cause it defeats the purpose, but on the flipside I don't mind making an officers day that less stressful.
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Old January 11, 2013, 08:06 PM   #39
Koda94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripnbst
Sidebar discussion, you dont want to disclose because you are with coworkers...why not?
because coworkers are not the same as friends. I cant think of any company outside of the firearm industry that has a pro gun policy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr40
Why not just hand the CCW permit to the LE offficer along with the DL. He will know and you don't have to say a word.
i didnt think about this in that context... it would be good to hear from LE officers on this, but it might make sense that if you also hand them your CHL then they dont need to ask if you have it on you. The problem is, this isnt a written rule and some officers might ask where it is or some other comment like Dragline45 experienced.
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Old January 11, 2013, 11:38 PM   #40
Aguila Blanca
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The obvious solution for you is to not wear a gun. You are hopelessly conflicted regarding your priorities. You aren't even clear on the parameters; it has now been shown that the law in your state does NOT require you to inform an officer, yet you continue to insist that "the law" forces you to "blow your cover."

If the law doesn't require you to inform an officer but you insist on informing him anyway, then the ball is entirely in his court as to how things will proceed from there.
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Old January 12, 2013, 12:23 AM   #41
kilimanjaro
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As a licensed carrier of a firearm, you do not have any 'cover'. If you are concerned about co-workers discovering you are carrying while employed, you can do one of four things :

1.) Let the folks you ride with know you have a CC permit. See what they say and go to option 1 or 2.

2.) Resign your position, if it is against company policy and you don't feel your co-workers will let it be, or

3.) Do not carry co-workers in your private vehicle, say your insurance does not cover such things and you'll drive alone from now on.

4.) Do not carry while on the clock.
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Old January 12, 2013, 12:33 AM   #42
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It seems the original question got bogged down in comments about obeying the rules of the road and don't take anyone with you who is anti gun. Lets get it back on track and supose for a minute that any one of us could find ourselves in the position of being required by law to inform an officer of your CCW but not wanting to reveal it to your passengers. Say for example you work for a company that says you are not allowed to have a firearm on company property, with the possiility of termination as a result. Its largely a CYA policy on the part of the company and they are very unlikely to have any legitamate reason to search your private vehicle anyway, so you lock your pistol in your car when you go to work and keep your mouth shut. One day a small group of you, including your supervisor decide to go out to a local resturant for lunch, and since you have the only vehicle with enough seating for all, you are elected to drive. You get pulled over for whatever reason. If you obey the law you risk making it known in the presence of your supervisor, that you are violating company policy by having a gun in your vehicle on company property. So, how can you discretly follow the law and not sell yourself out?
My sugestion would be to hand the officer my CCW permit with my license and quietly say that I would like to speak with him in confidence, and hope he is not a jerk. Any other real ideas?
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Old January 12, 2013, 12:49 AM   #43
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I just pulled over a guy who told me he is a bouncer at a strip club and he's carrying a 40 on his hip. He was legal CCW and not a bad guy, sent on his way with a warning for the traffic violation. Then it occurred to me... we have armed security guarding our strippers but no one posted at the schools!
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Old January 12, 2013, 12:51 AM   #44
Koda94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locnload
It seems the original question got bogged down in comments about obeying the rules of the road and don't take anyone with you who is anti gun. Lets get it back on track......
thank you locnload

this thread has been hopelessly derailed from my original post, thanks for the nudge to put it back on track.

from my OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koda94
This is just more of a curiosity to what others in the CCW community think about this situation.
, I never asked for advice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by locnload
So, how can you discretly follow the law and not sell yourself out?
My sugestion would be to hand the officer my CCW permit with my license and quietly say that I would like to speak with him in confidence, and hope he is not a jerk. Any other real ideas?
this is the best suggestion yet. It may also be the only real practical solution.
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Old January 12, 2013, 12:57 AM   #45
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when you turn your right into a privilage you have to deal with that.
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Old January 12, 2013, 01:16 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noreaster View Post
I just pulled over a guy who told me he is a bouncer at a strip club and he's carrying a 40 on his hip. He was legal CCW and not a bad guy, sent on his way with a warning for the traffic violation. Then it occurred to me... we have armed security guarding our strippers but no one posted at the schools!
Wow!

That kinda makes your head spin.
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Old January 12, 2013, 01:45 PM   #47
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An interesting lot of opinions, to be sure...

On carrying on company time...If you're doing something you shouldn't be doing (violating a company rule) you probably shouldn't be doing it. The variant suggested above, don't carry people in your car, citing insurance restrictions etc, sounds like a good work-around.

On "offending" friends and co-workers...Consider the same kinds of options when others bring up politics or religion. Or wear offensive cologone. Or stink like cigarettes. Those kinds of people typically aren't polite enough to consider YOUR views.

On dealing with LEOs in a traffic stop...If you're going to lunch, middle of the day, business district, block from Chilies, consider EXITING your vehicle when stopped. Do the right moves, of course. Exit. Keep hands visible. Stand still etc. Look like an employee driving his co-workers to lunch. That might not be an ideal option if you work at 83rd and Fig in LA.

Overall, it's all just more of the "plan ahead" RESPONSIBILITY you have when you carry. Important stuff to think through. Just as important as how to respond to "bumps in the night" and other scenarios.


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Old January 12, 2013, 02:37 PM   #48
larryh1108
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Sometimes it's not always that easy. Your company may not ban firearms but it may be known your boss is anti-gun. You could love your job, love where you work and get paid well. This is also a tough economy. For those who say quit or it's their problem, not yours, etc. Pfffft. It's not always cut and dried.

If you do not wish for anybody at your work to know you CCW then those are your wishes. Telling someone to get different friends or coworkers really have no clue. Life doesn't always work that way. Sometimes we have to work around situations whether we like it or not.

To the OP, you did get some good responses. It is up to you, of course, if you wish to carry privately or not. I agree that the wrong person who knows you carry could put you in a compromising position, especially with anti-gun fervor going on. It's none of their business if you carry or not. I agree with you.
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Old January 12, 2013, 04:01 PM   #49
Koda94
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Thanks for that reply Larry1108. A lot of that seems common sense and your post clarifies that, well said.

And yes, there are some good replies in the thread. What I enjoy about forums is the unlimited wide audience and open participation invites more creativity and experience on any subject even if you have to dig thru it a bit

what would make this thread shine is to hear from actual officers and their views on keeping their clients (?) privacy on the subject for routine traffic stops. I would be hesitant to just exit the vehicle, but don't think it unreasonable to discretely let the officer know you are glad to answer any questions in confidentially.
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Old January 12, 2013, 04:11 PM   #50
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The officer is there to write a ticket for a motor vehicle infraction. He is not there to respect your wished-for confidentiality, and you are not his "client." You might find an officer who is willing to go along with keeping discussion of your sidearm confidential, but IMHO the likelihood is small. If the officer's (or his department's) standard operating procedure is to disarm motorists for the duration of a stop (and that IS the protocol for many departments across the country), there is no way it's going to happen "in confidence." You'll be asked to step out of the vehicle, and the officer will then remove your firearm -- and probably unload it.

The officer has no reason to spend any more time than necessary for the stop to go through a lot of extraneous BS because you don't want your passenger to know you're packing heat. And, like it or not, anything related to maintaining "confidentiality" is going to waste the officer's time.
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