The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 11, 2013, 06:38 AM   #1
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,228
2400 powder ?

Is there a newer and better powder for loading 357 mag than the 2400 powder ?
rebs is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 08:11 AM   #2
Cary
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 111
What level of load are you looking for? Mid to upper end loads? What bullet weight and the gun will you use these in?
Cary
__________________
Shooters. We are a community. United we stand divided we fall.
Cary is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 08:15 AM   #3
Gdawgs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2009
Location: Hutchinson, MN
Posts: 587
2400 is still one of the best for magnum loads. Aliant did come out with that 300-MP not too long ago. It is designed for magnum handgun loads. But it is not in any of the reloading manuals yet so we'll have to wait until the next editions to see it there. Unfortunately, Aliant's reloading data on their website is pretty much useless. So I'm waiting to try it until the data shows up elsewhere.

H110/Win 296 is another good choice as well.
Gdawgs is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 09:42 AM   #4
L_Killkenny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
I've tried 2400 but prefer BlueDot. By the book, you'll get within 50-100 fps and it uses less powder (As much as 33% less). Accuracy has shown to be better with magnum loads and I've also been known to use BlueDot in reduced rifle loads.

No BD is not one of the new supper duper powders that turns handguns into dragon slayers but it's a great replacement for 2400.
L_Killkenny is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 09:46 AM   #5
chiefr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: AR
Posts: 1,225
I have been using 2400 for over 40 years now when I first read about it in various gun mags. IMHO there is none better for the magnums. 2400 has been around for many years now.
I have tried my share of the new powders, however as accuracy and performance have always been important to me, I returned to 2400.
Unique is another powder that has been around forever. I have tried the new similar powders but returned to Unique. Unique performs well in 357.
Agree, 296 & 110 would be my second choice.
chiefr is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 09:52 AM   #6
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,440
Quote:
Is there a newer and better powder for loading 357 mag than the 2400 powder ?
Let me know if you find something. I'm been using 2400 in 357 & 44 Magnums for about 40 years and I haven't found anything that works better in my magnum revolvers.

Why do people think that if a powder has been around a long time its no good any more? Look at Unique and Bullseye they still work pretty dern good.

New isn't always better.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 10:02 AM   #7
Contrast Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 170
Quote:
But it is not in any of the reloading manuals yet so we'll have to wait until the next editions to see it there.
2400 is recommended in Lyman's 49th as being the most accurate for heavier loads.
Contrast Man is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 10:59 AM   #8
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,994
My preferred powder for full magnum loads in .357 is WW 296.

AA 7 also does a very good job.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 11:04 AM   #9
Shootest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2011
Location: Just outside Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 623
Quote:
Aliant did come out with that 300-MP not too long ago. It is designed for magnum handgun loads. But it is not in any of the reloading manuals yet so we'll have to wait until the next editions to see it there.
I think he was referring to 300-MP when he said this, not 2400.
I am also waiting for more info for 300-MP, hard to believe what is claimed about it. Till then I will stick with 2400.
__________________
The private ownership of firearms is an American Heritage. Anyone who disputes that is Anti-American and unpatriotic.
NRA Life Member
http://s1096.photobucket.com/albums/g327/Wynn3/
Shootest is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 11:08 AM   #10
totaldla
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2009
Posts: 749
AA#9, Enforcer, H110/296
totaldla is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 11:18 AM   #11
Ifishsum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 704
Another vote for H110 (W296) but there's nothing wrong with 2400 either. I just love me some H110 for full strength magnum loads.
Ifishsum is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 11:55 AM   #12
KenL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 137
I like the performance and accuracy I get with 296 under 158g JHPs.
KenL is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 12:01 PM   #13
salvadore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,846
I've used 2400 for 40 years. I have a 20 yr old can of 296 and 4 cans of 2400 on the shelf and will be replacing the 2400 before the 296
salvadore is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 01:28 PM   #14
AlaskaMike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Posts: 907
I did a lot of experimentation with H110/296 in my 4" S&W model 28, and it does produce great velocity. My problem with it is that in the 4" barrel it makes for a really sharp, obnoxious muzzle blast.

I ended up going back to 2400. I can get so close to the same velocity that the difference is irrelevant. While I tend to favor the newer powders, 2400 is one that I just keep coming back to.

Mike
AlaskaMike is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 01:37 PM   #15
L_Killkenny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
Quote:
My problem with it is that in the 4" barrel it makes for a really sharp, obnoxious muzzle blast.
Yet to see a magnum load that didn't produce a really sharp, obnoxious muzzle blast. So if one is worse than another I could care less cause for anything short of SD/HD I'm using hearing protection.
L_Killkenny is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 01:47 PM   #16
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,778
Quote:
I've tried 2400 but prefer BlueDot.
I was contemplating that (switching to BD), but Alliant sent out this:

Quote:
Safety Notice
At Alliant Powder, we take safety seriously. That’s why we periodically test our products in different situations to be sure our use recommendations stay current. Check here for any safety notes or recall information. Stay safe and keep accurate.
Alliant Powder periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that our recommended recipes have not changed over time.

During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder's Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).

Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).
Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter.
I also found that I got better velocities w/ 2400 and 158gr XTP's when used with small pistol primers instead of the magnum small pistol primers.

H110 at max loads wrecked cases quickly, and threw 2 foot flames ..... and that muzzle blast that will blow all the pasters off an IDPA target at that close range .... pretty serious powder burns! Reducing loads even slighty caused velocity to fall precipitously...... add that to the fact that it has the textrue of fine sand- it will wreck a Lee PPM...... H110 was the second most disappointing powder I ever purchased.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 01:56 PM   #17
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,994
"it will wreck a Lee PPM"

Hum...

Someone forgot to tell my Lees that they should be wrecked by now from using WW 296, which is the same as H110...


"H110 at max loads wrecked cases quickly"

Define "wrecked."

I've got as many as full-power reloads through some of my .357 Mag. brass and I see no signs of it being wrecked.


"Reducing loads even slighty caused velocity to fall precipitously"

Uhm... Define "precipitiously"...

You're either doing something wrong, or you've got some bizarro situation cropping up. I've never had velocities fall off much more than what I expect as long as I load to within the powder's book range.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 02:49 PM   #18
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,778
Quote:
"it will wreck a Lee PPM"
a few grains got into the rotor, and scratched the crap out of it, causing it to bind.

Quote:
Define "wrecked."
Cases were bulged just ahead of the rim, where the die would not reach to resize them. They would not slip freely into or out of the chambers, after resizing.



Quote:
Uhm... Define "precipitiously"...
In the work-up, 14.5 gr was the last point that did not cause the cases to bulge at the base, and gave around 1100f/sec with a 158gr XTP. 15.0 gr bulged the case heads slightly, 15.6 such that extraction was difficult.

14.5 gr of 2400 with a standard small pistol primer gave a velocity that averaged just under 1250, with less flash/blast, a lower SD, and did not bulge the base of the case at all.

Same bullet (158gr XTP), same gun (Colt Trooper MkIII, 6"), same chronograph on the same day .... same everthing but the powder and the primer.

I did load up 100 rounds with 15.3gr of H110 just for giggles and took them to an IDPA mini-match ..... stage started with first target 6" from the shooter ..... on the signal, shooter was to step back and draw and shoot from retention ..... 1 arrived late and there were 20+ shooters that had holed the center of the target pretty good, such that the thing was held together as much by pasters as by cardboard ...... at the beep, I stepped back and to the side and fired twice, blowing 2 fist sized holes in the -0 area, and a shower of smoking cardboard-and-paster confetti out behind the target. The front half of the stage was poorly lit, so the muzzle flashes were dazzling, and the gun was loud enough to cause onlookers to ask what caliber of hand cannon I was carting around..... most of the "serious" competitors were using wonder nines or 1911's with mouse fart loads .....
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 02:53 PM   #19
AlaskaMike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Posts: 907
L_Killkenny wrote:
Quote:
Yet to see a magnum load that didn't produce a really sharp, obnoxious muzzle blast. So if one is worse than another I could care less cause for anything short of SD/HD I'm using hearing protection.
I was talking comparatively. I'm not trying to say that full power 2400 loads are whisper quiet--I'm saying that my H110/296 loads are really sharp and obnoxious compared to my 2400 loads.

Yes, I use hearing protection too, and yes, the H110/296 loads were still objectionably "blasty".
AlaskaMike is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 05:07 PM   #20
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,994
"In the work-up, 14.5 gr was the last point that did not cause the cases to bulge at the base, and gave around 1100f/sec with a 158gr XTP. 15.0 gr bulged the case heads slightly, 15.6 such that extraction was difficult."

OK, a couple of problems with that, I think...

1. I think you have a gun issue, not a powder issue.

2. Your powder charges with H110 are too light.

Hodgdon's website shows, for 158-gr. XTPs, a MINIMUM load of 15 grains and a maximum load of 16.7.

The warnings with H110/WW296 has, for many years, been that you should never drop below Winchester's (or Hodgdon since they took it over) recommendations.

I routinely use use 22 grains (MAX LOAD!) of WW 296 behind a 125-gr. bullet, and 16.5 grains of 296 behind a 158-gr. bullet in my two N frame .357s and I have never had anything even remotely resembling what you're describing.

I'm thinking that you've got a revolver with oversized chambers.

Regarding the muzzle blast, yes, that will happen with heavy charges of just about any slow burning powder.

Regarding your measure, my bad, I didn't realize you were talking about the rotary drum measure -- I was thinking one of the Auto Disk models.

Yes, a fine-grain powder like 296/H110 can do that.

If you think H110 is fine, I'd suggest that you never try AA 7... It's like talc.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 08:54 PM   #21
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,228
I am loading 158 gr lswc's in a S&W model 19 with 4" barrel. Loading medium to medium heavy loads. Nothing super hot.
rebs is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 09:54 PM   #22
458winshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Louisville,Tn
Posts: 404
powders

Vihtavuori N-110 is a good powder as well.It doesn't flash as bad as H-110/W296 and it works better than they do when loading less than max loads.On the burn chart it is a little slower than 2400.I use it in 357 and 44 mag loads.It burns very clean as well.
458winshooter is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 10:04 PM   #23
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,778
Quote:
2. Your powder charges with H110 are too light.

Hodgdon's website shows, for 158-gr. XTPs, a MINIMUM load of 15 grains and a maximum load of 16.7.
The data was taken from Hornady's 5th ed., and had a start load of 12.7gr and a max load of 15.6 .....

... and on the line right above it, they have a start load of 12.4 to max of 16.0 for WIN296, though everybody here seems to know that these are the same powder......

Quote:
I'm thinking that you've got a revolver with oversized chambers.
I've never had a problem with any other load bulging cases .... I've used BlueDot, Power Pistol, and 2400, in addition to several premium personal defense loadings in .357, as well as BlueDot, RedDot, 700X, Unique, vN-340, and Power Pistol in .38Spec and .38Spec+p loads in that same gun. I've had many cases split at the mouth, but no bulges at the case head, other than the H110 load.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 10:41 PM   #24
GP100man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2007
Location: Tabor City , NC.
Posts: 1,922
If I could only have 1 powder for all my reloading it would be 2400 !!

Do I have other powders YES.

Another powder that`ll perform superb but can be hard to measure is

IMR 800X

IMR 4227

HERCO

No exp with 300MP

BUT 2400 was the factory powder for yrs. in the 357 Magnum.

H-110 performs well , but just to blasty & flashy for my hunting loads .
__________________
GP100man
GP100man is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 12:14 AM   #25
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Posts: 2,049
For a hot load. I like IMR 4227 myself. Little more forgiving and has a little less barrel flash than Win-296-H110 and even Blue Dot. In high intensity applications it's a hard one to beat.
On the mild side. I prefer Win 231. I've always considered it to be one of the best Mid Range powders ever made. Versatile and very clean burning.
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12985 seconds with 9 queries