The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 8, 2013, 11:31 AM   #1
MissouriExile
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2013
Posts: 1
Absolute Rifle question

I have owned shotguns and handguns for some time now. I am looking for my first bolt action I find that iron sites are rarely available anymore.
I am looking at the R.A.R. in .243.
My only experience with rifles was the M-14, I don't feel comfortable without iron sites. yes, I am fairly old and I am concerned with having to fool with a scope for a quick shot.
what options do I have? can iron sites be mounted or some other simple site?
MissouriExile is offline  
Old January 8, 2013, 11:43 AM   #2
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,809
Yes.
There are a lot of options. Most of them cost less than a good scope.
Cut a dovetail, install a rail, clamp on sites, etc.
Although no irons is common, there are a good number of rifles offered with them. The problem is the factory iron sights are pretty shabby.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old January 8, 2013, 12:29 PM   #3
L_Killkenny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
There are folk like you that get intimidated by scopes, others who wrongly think iron sights are better for certain tasks. But the right scope is better than any iron sight created. They are just a durable, faster to use, better sight picture, etc. You want to get a .243 and use iron sights you are doing nothing but handicapping yourself. Some folks intentionally do that, same as some folks use muzzle loaders or handguns for hunting and that's fine. I like handgun hunting myself and like the challenge, But don't be fooled into thinkin scopes aren't hands down better.
L_Killkenny is offline  
Old January 8, 2013, 12:39 PM   #4
Xfire68
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 31, 2010
Location: Communist State of IL.
Posts: 1,423
L_Killkenny, is right there a re ton of optics out now that let you acquire your targets quickly. 1-4x, 1-6x make for great options for close range to mid range hunting.
__________________
NRA Life Member, SAF Member

www.aac300blackoutbrass.com A Veteran owned Business.
Xfire68 is offline  
Old January 8, 2013, 01:07 PM   #5
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 5,103
Check out the Scout Rifle concept.
Low powered scopes mounted forward for fast shots.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/...te-scout-rifle
__________________
Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.
g.willikers is offline  
Old January 8, 2013, 05:17 PM   #6
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,942
There is nothing that you can do with irons that a low powered scope won't do better. I've had more iron sights break and fail than scopes. A 1X or 2X scope is faster for quick shooting than irons as well.

Quality irons will add $200-$300 to the cost of a rifle. That, and the fact that a scope does everything better anyway is why you don't see them very often. The rifles that do still come with them are usually very low quality iron sights.

If I really wanted them I'd not select a rifle based just on the fact that it did have irons. You can have VERY good iron sights installed by a gunsmith for about the same cost as a budget scope and mounts. Buy the rifle you like, then have some quality sights put on it.
jmr40 is offline  
Old January 8, 2013, 06:25 PM   #7
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,307
CZ has a few offerings with iron sights. If you wish to save a little on spending then check out a single shot. Rossi offers many with Hi Viz fiber optic sights. Also H&R Handi Rifle has good iron sights. It is light, and quick handling.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old January 8, 2013, 08:12 PM   #8
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 11,445
All good suggestions, but the OP said
Quote:
I am looking at the R.A.R. in .243.
I suspect he means he is looking at an RRA or other AR pattern rifle in 243.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 06:40 AM   #9
pabuckslayer08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2010
Location: South Central Pa
Posts: 692
If your looking for a bolt gun your not going to find a better gun than a Remington BDL, they have iron sights and a very good set also.
pabuckslayer08 is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 12:14 PM   #10
McShooty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2012
Location: Northern Missouri
Posts: 338
If you like iron sights and are "fairly old," as I am, don't discount the idea of a good receiver aperture sight. A large hole peep is very fast and also accurate. A target peep is capable of precision shooting with the right target design. You can have both simply by changing the aperture, and it is the best iron setup for aging eyes.
McShooty is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 09:51 PM   #11
Major Dave (retired)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2008
Location: Between Dallas and Shreveport, LA
Posts: 552
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but...

When you progress from "fairly old" to "old", your eyesight will progress from "barely able to focus on the front sight and target" to "Can only focus on one of them - the target, or the front sight".

No problem with a scope, at any age.

The secret to easy to see thru a scope, is to use a low power. This gives you a wide field of view, and what is called "non-critical eye relief". That means the scope is not finicky about exactly how far your eye is from the back end of the scope.

Leupold scopes have very non-critical eye relief. I have one of their scopes that goes from 1.75 power on the low end, to 6 power on the high end, and it is very easy to throw up to my shoulder quickly and be able to see the target through the scope. In fact, I never take my eyes off the target, and when the butt of my rifle settles into my shoulder, the scope is lined up perfectly with the target, and I see a full circle thru the scope, without any portion of the field of view being blacked out. I don't even look for the scope - it's already there. All I have to do is make a small adjustment to place the cross hairs precisely where I want the bullet to hit, and it's a done deal.

Try it - you will like it.

P.S. The first (center fire) rifle I learned to shoot was an M-1 Garand. I could hit 3 out of every 4 targets at the 400 yard range. Open iron (peep) sights. Age 19. Now, @ age 71 - scopes are a wonderful thing!
__________________
Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be but a vulgar brawl.
Major Dave (retired) is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 09:57 PM   #12
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,776
Quote:
I am looking at the R.A.R. in .243.
Quote:
I suspect he means he is looking at an RRA or other AR pattern rifle in 243.
Could R.A.R. be "Ruger American Rifle"?
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 10:01 PM   #13
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,776
Quote:
There is nothing that you can do with irons that a low powered scope won't do better.
Irons never fog over on a cold morning if you breathe on them.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 10:35 PM   #14
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 2,262
High end scopes unfog in about 1 second.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 11:58 PM   #15
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,809
IF you have the right scope it is always better than irons in any specific situation.
A good peep sight will do anything though.

The one hunting gun I have scope has see through rings with irons for short shots. I shot a deer with it at 15 yards last year. Much better than the scope.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 10:47 AM   #16
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,776
Quote:
The one hunting gun I have scope has see through rings
You get a good cheek weld when using the scope with that set up?

IME, that's not possible.

Not having good contact with the stock is a recipe for getting smacked in the face with it, or the scope.

...and without good solid reference point to put your cheek on, getting a consistant hold is unlikely ...... snap shots with the scope would be slower, too.

See-Thru rings offer the worst of both worlds ......
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 10:24 PM   #17
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 2,262
When I was a teenager, I got the bright idea to put see through rings on a 94 Ranger. I took them off about a month later. Shooting with my head up in the sky did not work out so well.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 12:04 PM   #18
oneoldsap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 16, 2009
Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont
Posts: 1,585
*** is an R.A.R ? Come on , typing out words isn't that hard (unless one can't spell) ! That way we'd know what you were talking about . When you make up acronyms , you're the only one that knows the meaning of them . That being said , Welcome to TFL forums . Shooting with a properly mounted scope is faster than Iron sights , you just have to practice , just like any other activity that requires hand eye coordination ! Stay away from see through mounts or rings , they just ruin both your sighting systems !
oneoldsap is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 02:16 PM   #19
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
You get a good cheek weld when using the scope with that set up
I almost addressed this point. Yes I do. the stock has a raised cheek piece and it is correct for the scope. The rings were on the rifle when i bought it and I believe they are factory. The height difference isn't all that great to begin with as these aren't raised as high or wide as most of the see through rings I have seen. Dropping to the iron sights is what is a little awkward. Since I am inside 50 yards, and usually 30 when using the iron sights, it isn't much of a problem. I was a little surprised at how well it works. I originally sighted the irons in as a back-up for if I took a fall on a hunting trip or something and was not sure about the scope zero, but they work well.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 02:41 PM   #20
Mausermolt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2007
Location: Ory-gun
Posts: 502
This hog didnt complain much about my M1903A3 open sights from 250 yds
Nor the cow elk from 200yds with the Garand. Open sights are really fun to hunt with! So on occasion i use them. but i do enjoy a good scope most of the time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20110227073442.jpg (212.4 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg keaton and his elk.jpg (74.0 KB, 14 views)
__________________
Molon Labe
Mausermolt is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 08:51 PM   #21
actionsportsaz
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2013
Posts: 3
Mossberg ATR is available with rifle sights and scope mounts. I have one in 30-06 and its a good value rifle. The sights are Williams fire sight in te front and adjustable ramp in the rear. You want Model 26254
actionsportsaz is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 09:07 PM   #22
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 2,262
Thats a neat looking rifle. Handy woods gun.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 14, 2013, 11:20 PM   #23
brinker
Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 38
Hey fella a 243 is a fine cal, for hunting that you can fine. I like a scope because you can identify your target and if zero'ed properly, you can have a positive kill, and not wound. I once owned a see thru mount with a redfield 4X, It was very difficult to zero the scope, many time's I used the open range, and I had a good kill. It was mounted in a bolt action Winchester, 243. any time I used the Scope I used Kentucky windage. Never could get that scope to zero properly. Good luck and shoot clean! Sunny
brinker is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10303 seconds with 10 queries