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Old December 17, 2012, 08:41 PM   #1
moisanfan11
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new to black powder

Looking for tips and info on anything having to do with black powder rifles, pistols,etc.
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Old December 17, 2012, 09:18 PM   #2
BirchOrr
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Well... you've come to the right place! If you search these threads here you can find out just about anything you want. If you have specific questions, throw 'em out there!

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Old December 17, 2012, 09:32 PM   #3
Beagle333
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Read the sticky... read some of the threads... toss out a question ( or 12)
We got answers! Maybe not all the right answers... but we'll shout out an answer, for sure!

What kinda shootin' you gonna be doin'? Hunting .... paper targets for fun .... back yard can shootin' ... long range competition..... maybe get into cowboy competitions? or some other idea?

And welcome to the bp forum.
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Old December 17, 2012, 10:15 PM   #4
Rigmarol
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RUN, and RUN FAST and FAR!!!!
If you hang around Black Powder long enough it becomes an addiction!!!
Too late for the rest of us, SAVE YOURSELF!!!

Seriously, just ask away there is a lot of experience hanging around here.

My suggestion to a new BP shooter is to choose a gun you are going to enjoy and shoot repeatedly. My first BP gun was a flint lock rifle that I soon got frustrated with (because I was learning all on my own and didn't have anyone to ask) I couldn't get the flint to spark regularly so I sold it and didn't try BP again for many years. Then, I chose a Hawkins Clone in 50cal but went with a percussion lock system instead and shot it as often as I could!!!! much better experience.

I then moved to percussion revolvers and fell in love, where were these when I was younger? And now, I'm beginning to mess with BP cartridges for my Cowboy Action Shooting. Did I mention the addiction part?

Good luck.
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Old December 17, 2012, 11:01 PM   #5
moisanfan11
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I would be using it for target and hunting
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Old December 18, 2012, 12:31 AM   #6
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I'm new to bp also.

My SIL "guided" me when I bought a in-line this fall. He had a CVA Optima that is reasonably priced and his shoots tight groups at 100 yards so I bought one almost like it (mine has the camo stock) and run the same load through it as he does.

100 grains BlackHorn 209 (don't use 209 primers made for muzzleloading per the BP 209 website) and PowerBelt 245 aerotip. My groups just as tight as his does which tells me the CVA are good rifles. And the Powerbelt bullet is so easy to load, no sabots etc.

I'm no expert but I had pretty good beginners luck listening to the SIL so am passing it on.
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Old December 18, 2012, 09:39 AM   #7
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moisanfan11

Quote:
I would be using it for target and hunting
Well... I was bit by the BP bug many years ago. It's been quite a journey! I started as I wanted to enjoy the extended hunting season.

I can only speak here about pistols/rifles I personally own. The pistols I use the most are a Uberti Walker, Pietta 1858 New Army and Ruger Old Army. Read the thread on the SS ROA in this column! The Uberti's seem to be slightly higher quality, but I have no complaints with Pietta nor do I want to offend anyone! MJN77 has a nice Uberti Walker at the top of this page for sale. I pretty much carry the ROA now as it's a recent purchase and like getting a new toy.

I started carrying a BP pistol for hunting as if I had a wounded animal, I could quickly put in another killing shot without reloading my long gun. Also if I had game come in at 50yds or less, I'd use my sidearm.

With in-lines, start out by FOLLOWING THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS! CVA's like Powerbelts. The barrel's are made and designed to shoot those bullets. T/C's like Shock-waves (made by Hornady) and also like Barnes TMZ's or MZ's. You can spend a ton of money trying different things and most of us here have! We can't help it, it's part of the bug. Different powders, pellets, amount of powder, Goex or Swiss BP, on and on and on.

All the best to you on your journey and there's no shortage of advice to be found here!

B
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Old December 18, 2012, 01:55 PM   #8
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I guess I'm kind of going backward. I started out with the civil war replica pistols ending with a Remington but they were so much work loading, cleaning and being careful to watch out for hot caps dropping on my hand when I cocked it for the next round I sold the whole works.

Rifles are much more useful IMHO since I only get to the range a few times a year now and mostly hunt.

BirchOrr,

It seems you have done experimenting ..... BIG TIME. You're dead on for the CVA so am sure you've got the TC nailed in regard to what groups good etc.
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Old December 18, 2012, 03:18 PM   #9
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warbirdlover

Thanks for the kind words sir!

Yeah I've done a TON of testing. Spent a countless amount of money trying different things. Read countless reviews and ballistic testing results. Some of these results are simply not true. For a true test, the deck cannot be stacked!

Example: I just read ballistic results from an excellent bullet/sabot company testing their bullets against PowerBelt's. The barrel they tested with was a .50cal Knight Disc Extreme. This is not a fair test at all! Of course their bullets would group better as the Knight was not designed to shoot PowerBelts. If the test had been done using a CVA barrel, the results would have NOT been the same. In fact, most probably the opposite.

This is why I tried to stress in my last post to follow manufacturers instructions AT LEAST to start with.
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Old December 18, 2012, 08:23 PM   #10
warbirdlover
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So now I need to know.... what is your rifle brand?
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Old December 18, 2012, 11:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
what is your rifle brand?
BP long-guns: (must also say, I've taken many, many deer with all these guns).

#1) Bought a used 'brown barrel" CVA Hawken when I was 20 for $75. I'm now 53. Used that for YEARS until the in-lines came out. Likes 70gr Swiss 2f and round balls. Still have it.
#2) Bought a used, stainless, T/C Black Diamond for $125 used it for many more years. Put a Tasco 3-9 $120 scope on it. Likes 120gr T7 pellets. 250gr sabot's - Shockwaves, Hornady's (same thing), and Barnes TMZ's and MZ's. Still have it.
#3) Got a new T/C Encore. Camo stock, stainless, Top of the line at the time. Shot very well right out of the box. First one to have the 209 ejector swing to the side without taking the gun apart to remove the breech plug. Put a 3-9 Leupold scope on it. Likes all the same sabot/powder as mentioned in #2. Still have it.
#4) Bought a new T/C Triumph. Camo stock, "Weather-Shield" barrel, 1st one to have the breach plug removable without any tools. Put a Nikon "Omega" 3-9 scope on it. This one gave me fits in the beginning. No matter what I did, I couldn't group well. Finally after shooting about 30 rounds through it, somehow it finally broke in. THEN it almost didn't matter what I put through it, it shot exceptionally well! LOVE the Omega "Drop compensating scope". Likes the same sabot/powder as in # 2 and #3. Still have it.
#5) My son was graduating college and I ordered 2 CVA Accura's, 1 for him and of COURSE I had to have one too. Camo "thumb-hole" stock, stainless, same Omega scope as #4 on both. By this time, CVA also had the removable breech plug requiring no tools. Likes 245gr PowerBelts and again 120gr of T7 pellets. Interesting difference, mine also likes the Barnes sabots mentioned above, but my sons gun hates them. Go figure. Still have it.

Conclusion: I MIGHT get a slight accuracy advantage in using loose powder rather than pellets. Not worthy of extra hassle in the field. With real BP, compaction is a BIG factor, while T7 (loose powder) they recommend little to almost no compaction. Had no cleaning or accuracy advantage using White Hots over T7 pellets. If I can't get a 2 inch group at 100yds. I'm not happy. I swab my barrel's with pre-soaked and dry patches between every shot even in the field. I want every shot to be the same as the one before. (not to mention getting the sabot plastic fouling out of the barrel while it's still warm)! I have had Shockwaves and Hornady's (that were NOT "bonded") (they do also sell bonded sabots) fragment in the meat. Also had the happen with PowerBelts. Never had it happen with the Barnes. I would take any of these guns in the field as I know exactly what they like and what they will do.

Didn't intend on writing a book about this, but got carried away and hope I covered enough to answer your question! (LOVE talkin'-bout BP)

Birch
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Last edited by BirchOrr; December 18, 2012 at 11:57 PM.
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Old December 19, 2012, 08:11 PM   #12
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Lot's of interesting stuff Birch. Thanks!
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Old December 19, 2012, 09:44 PM   #13
DD4lifeusmc
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BP gun

To Moisan fan
Maybe I missed it. While others put out some good advice I missed your beginning prefernce .
You wanted advice on rifle and pistol. And then daid target and hunting.
First It's semantics i know, but pistol is generally a single shot and a revolver is a pistol with a cylinder that revolves with up to 6 shots generally.
Now as to hunting: What type of game are you planning to hunt?
Generally speaking most states don't allow BP pistols (revolvers and single shots) for big game (antelop, deer, elk etc). While they can take down these animals it just isn't recommended.
So are we talking rabbits, squirrels and varmits?
Same goes for a rifle. Generally speaking a .45 cal and smaller is used for smaller gamem though can be used for bigger if your state laws allow it.
generally speaking , once again, most people would use the .50 and .54 ca for Antelope deer, elk.
In the rifles are you looking traditional or inline modern.
Some state laws don't allow the modern inlines during Muzzle loading and also some don't allow felons to have them.
Now if going traditional you got flintlocks or Percussion. Percussion is the newer design of the two and generally more reliable.
A google search of the two will yield a lot of info.
Now which type of projectile would you prefer.
Generally speaking a slow rifling twist in the barrel of 1 twist in 65 inches is for patched round ball.
1 in 48 is generally pretty good for patched round ball or the conical bullets
And a faster twist is generally for the conicals.
Again that was generally speaking.
You also need to decide on barrel length. Carbine generally 24 and under for heavier brush and close shots, 29 - 34 for slightly better accuracy and farther shots.
Now back to revolvers.
Two general types the colt design with the open top or the Remington. The remington has a metal strap moulded over the top of the cylinder, giving more strength and rigidity.
Both are about the same for accuracy and reliability.
If you want to shoot a LOT of heavy charges stay away from the brass frames. They will tend to deteriorate over time and shoot loose.
Both the Colt and Remmies come in different calibers and price ranges.
Now for me. I started back in the 70's with two Navy Arms brand Remington New Army models .44 cal They still work and shoot like new. Better actually as they have the rough edges shot off an work more smoothly. Average groups on a good day when I do my part 1 1/2 -2 inches at 20 yds. I shoot home cast 200 grain conical bullets.
As to my rifles
I have a 30 year old .50 cal CVA plainsman 32 inch barrel that was in kit form.
Knock down power and accuracy to a hundred yard I'd match it with anything. It has served well over the years. I used 320 and 350 grain conicals in it.
I have some newer .50 and .54 cal hawkens again just as accurate.
I also have a .54 caliber breech loader 1863 model Sharps. It shoots a 535 gr conical.
Haven't hunted with it yet, just got it this year. But it too is very accurate.
Now after you decide on the weapon, you will need some accessories.
And learn which type of projectile, RB or conical you and your weapon prefers.
Then some good working loads to test.
And then cleaning products.
In this case plain hot soapy water and or rubbing alcohol works as good as any of the high priced commercial products.
So now decide, single shot or revolver and the rifle and projectile. The game you plan to shoot.
Also do you want to go Traditional or the modern inlines.
And Hey a Merry Christmas to ALL!
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Old December 29, 2012, 09:08 PM   #14
moisanfan11
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Thats a lot of info. In my state you could hunt with any muzzleloader as long as it is one shot. So for a pistol I want a single shot precussion and a inline rifle. But after I get those I will be looking for whatever muzzleloader catches my attention
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Old December 29, 2012, 09:49 PM   #15
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For an inline don't shy away from a Traditions. I have a Buckstalker and that thing is nothing short of impressive with sabots. I use the Hornady Low Drag SST. The Traditions Inlines are pretty cheap as far as money goes but I'll be dang if it looks or acts like a cheap rifle. The breech plug they use is awesome.
Now there are a bunch of different styles of inlines. You have the break action (like a single barrel shotgun), then a plunger type, and bolt actions. I prefer the break action, which is what my Buckstalker is and rifles like the CVA Wolf and such. They are just MUCH easer to clean and take care of, not to mention putting a 209 primer in it without a capper. Most all the inlines are awesome rifles I have nothing against any of them. I have only shot a CVA Wolf, a Thompson Center, and my Buckstalker. But for the price point my Traditions wins hands down. Now the Thompson has the advantage of being able to get different barrels for it to change caliber or you can even get a barrel for centerfire. Hope my rambling helps some.
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Old December 29, 2012, 09:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
But after I get those I will be looking for whatever muzzleloader catches my attention
Oh and trust me, THEY ALL will catch your attention
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Old December 30, 2012, 01:14 PM   #17
BirchOrr
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Oh and trust me, THEY ALL will catch your attentio
Yeah, what deerslayer said.

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Old December 31, 2012, 09:12 PM   #18
moisanfan11
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What will really get my attention is a nice hawken flintlock or kentucky rifle, also a flintlock. Later though
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Old January 10, 2013, 08:51 AM   #19
littleking
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definitely check out the blackhorn 209 powder, amazing results of of my Thomson Center Encore

I used the 250 GR shockwave bullet using the yellow superglide sabots
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Old January 10, 2013, 04:38 PM   #20
Old Grump
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Doomed, you are all doomed. I only had one so I could continue hunting but its a disease so I scratched the itch and bought a handgun, that's it, I was done, some where. some way, some how I don't know it went to 5, I'm afraid to check my gun box, heaven knows what I will find in there today. Run - Run fast and far before its to late.

Never mind, I see it's already to late, looking for a dueling pistol set and a shotgun.....
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Old January 10, 2013, 06:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
definitely check out the blackhorn 209 powder
If you go traditional don't even consider it. It takes a 209 primer to set it off and costs three times what bp does.
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Old January 14, 2013, 02:21 PM   #22
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I just BOUGHT a CVA Wolf yesterday. Have not even fired it yet. Already, I'm ready to build a flintlock from a kit. I don't even have powder for it yet!

Do these things come with morphine or something???? This stuff is really addictive. I just sold an AR15 this morning so I could continue this addiction.
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Old January 14, 2013, 03:08 PM   #23
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yeah, I just sold an sks so's I could get a Pietta engraved 51 Navy "Wild Bill" model, lol! I don't even shoot any of my "modern" guns anymore, don't even have that many left. LOL!
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Old January 14, 2013, 03:43 PM   #24
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Wow! So it's not just me!

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