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Old January 8, 2013, 08:02 PM   #51
Skippymjp
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The threat was stopped, the family is safe, and the bad guy's wounds made him easy pickings for the Police. Very successful shooting. Kudos to Mom.
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Old January 8, 2013, 08:08 PM   #52
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Some pertinent information:

Man shot 20 times by .45 ACP and survives:

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/64307962.html

Man shot 21 times by 9mm and survives:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-and-survives/

Famous FBI shootout, Mike Platt continued to return fire after being shot 5 times with 9mm by trained FBI agents - he was not on drugs and not wearing body armor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Looks like the only thing worth a darn for self defense is the Apache gunship's 30mm cannon, right?

I guess it is worth noting that he was still "alive", not a "threat". I doubt .410 7 1/2 shot from the Judge or Governor is going to kill, but it could stop the threat.
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Old January 8, 2013, 08:13 PM   #53
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"Looks like the only thing worth a darn for self defense is the Apache gunship's 30mm cannon, right?"

Fuh! What a piddling, trivial, thing that is! The only people who depend on something like that are the ones who have a death wish!

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Old January 8, 2013, 08:31 PM   #54
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Great Outcome

She stopped the attack. That's what it is all about. The fact that she does not have to live with having taken a human life is the bonus.

We should all hope for such a great result. She successfully defended herself and kids.

As a dental tech in the USAF I saw the result of a 12 gauge in the mouth....suicide attempt. Yup attempt...the woman lived. The docs and security police surmised that she bent over to pull the trigger thus pointing the barrel out the side of her face. Made a hell of a mess, birdshot in both the Maxilla and the Mandible and a big hole in her cheek.

As I have seen again and again here, and experienced in person. Shot placement is the key.
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Old January 8, 2013, 08:37 PM   #55
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Well here's the thing. Every so often you will get an abnormality to the normality. He is the abnormality. Now also in self defense you are suppose to shoot center of mass if possible and make them stop what they are doing. he stopped so the gun and ammo did its job. Just because he did or did not die because of her forced attempt to make him stop that actually made him stop is irrelevant. He stopped, Her family is safe and his criminal career is probably ruined if he is disabled. But that's just my take on it.
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Old January 8, 2013, 08:59 PM   #56
481
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Quote:
Man shot 20 times by .45 ACP and survives:

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/64307962.html

Man shot 21 times by 9mm and survives:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-and-survives/

Famous FBI shootout, Mike Platt continued to return fire after being shot 5 times with 9mm by trained FBI agents - he was not on drugs and not wearing body armor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Looks like the only thing worth a darn for self defense is the Apache gunship's 30mm cannon, right?
It is amazing how the human body can be so tough and so fragile at the same time, isn't it?
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Old January 8, 2013, 09:43 PM   #57
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The 38Spl out of a 2" barrel is very marginal. You have to be VERY picky about your ammo.

In standard pressure I trust the Buffalo Bore hollowpoints. Their full wadcutter loaded full power has merit too. The Hornady Critical Defense standard pressure are...not *terrible* but I'm not sure I fully trust 'em.

In +P it's a bit better. Winchester's 130gr JHP is OK. Speer's 135gr is good. Remmie's 158+P plain lead hollowpoint works. Buffalo Bore's +P stuff is awesome, with their 158 reigning supreme - but it's not for the lighter guns. The Hornady Critical Defense in 38+P has merit. And...that's really getting towards the end of the list!

If it's not one of those, it's likely to fail to expand...at that point (except for the plain lead 158 lead hollowpoints based on the "Keith type" and the SOLE full-power wadcutter by Buffalo Bore) you're shooting crap.

Same with the 380 - you need to be really picky. The 9mm has developed to a point where there's fewer bad loads but still some. The 357Mag, 40S&W and 45ACP, it's actually hard to go wrong, but you can.
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Old January 8, 2013, 09:54 PM   #58
therealdeal
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thats some good aim though

Quote:
How do you live with 5 gun shot wounds to the face and neck area by a 38 ? is a 38 not good for self defence now?
it is possible some of the wounds/shots were flashburns, grazes, andor other non-life threatening hits(piece of the chin as an example).
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Old January 8, 2013, 10:21 PM   #59
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Shot placement! It's all about shot placement. I 've seen big game shot multiple times with monster rifle cartridges that fail to go down immediately, because they hunter didn't hit anything vital; conversely, I have seen big game go down with a single shot from a 22 RF. It's all about shot placement as much it is about the round.
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Old January 8, 2013, 11:40 PM   #60
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The lesson of the day is shot placement.
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Old January 9, 2013, 03:00 AM   #61
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I just don't have any confidence in the .38 Special from a snubbie.
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Old January 9, 2013, 09:21 AM   #62
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I have complete confidence in my 38Spl snubbie.

Enough that it is my everyday CCW.
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old January 9, 2013, 01:41 PM   #63
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Quote:
I just don't have any confidence in the .38 Special from a snubbie.
You should definitely be confident of yourself with your weapon system, whatever that system may be at any time. I have confidence in myself armed with a butter knife if that's what's available at the time.


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Old January 9, 2013, 02:39 PM   #64
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The old NYPD stake out squad has a similar incident. Two officers in the backroom eating pizza instead of watching the store. Knock on the door and the pharmacist gets pushed through by a perp with a gun to his back. Upon seeing the officers the perp fires his starter pistol and the lead officer thinks he's shot. Both officers open fire with their revolvers ( 5 & 6 shot 38spl,) Perp goes down for the count. When the ambulance got their the perp sat up and was walked out to the ambulance with eleven GSW to the face/head. All rounds skimmed the skull and failed to penetrate.
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Old January 9, 2013, 02:48 PM   #65
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.38

And Jack Ruby dropped Lee Oswald like a sack of wet laundry with one round of 158-grain lead round nose fired from a 2-inch barrel...probably about 650 fps...and Oswald died 5 minutes later while en route to the hospital.

One incident isn't a good yardstick to prove or disprove anything.
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Old January 9, 2013, 05:25 PM   #66
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That cracks me up.
And why is that? That I am not impressed with the results I have seen and history?
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Old January 9, 2013, 05:34 PM   #67
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Quote:
Man shot 20 times by .45 ACP and survives:
I find that hard to believe. Everyone knows a hit in the finger with a .45 will take your arm off.
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Old January 9, 2013, 05:38 PM   #68
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I want Sgt Lumpy on my side. If your on the Isle of knife crime, guess what you use? But you still have to train!
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Old January 9, 2013, 11:14 PM   #69
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I agree on that idea of shooting at the top of the leg one. Right in the ba!!s.
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Old January 10, 2013, 12:11 AM   #70
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Home-breaker; .38spl wounds....

To my understanding, the wounded subject is in ICU & not doing well.

I would be surprised if the crook lived to the end of Jan.
Many people don't understand that handgun bullets can kill or be lethal they just don't have the "knock down" power like Hollywood films & TV crime shows.

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Old January 10, 2013, 07:01 AM   #71
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it should be noted that ammo makes a big difference and many people might agree the .38 is a prime example. some of the cheap( sometimes twice of the amount in the box) ammo is more for just practice even though all ammo can be deadly. It attracts a buyer trying to save money or someone that doesn't realize that not all bullets do the same damage. You have a much better chance for survival if someone has these loaded rounds rather than hollowpoints in the old cia/fbi rounds. I treat all ammo as SD/HD ammo, but some ammo is more of target shooting, practicing, etc if someone wants to maximize their buck or if he/she uses different ammo for different occasions/purposes.
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Old January 10, 2013, 07:36 AM   #72
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Congrats to her for stopping the invader. I'll venture a guess though, that the 38 wasn't loaded with premium self defense ammo.
Very likely it was lead round nose.

Perhaps it is now loaded with 135 gr Speer Gold Dot for Short Barrel +p.
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Old January 10, 2013, 08:53 AM   #73
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OK, looks like SHE was in the crawl space, he was in the home proper. She lit him up when he opened the door, which means that he was standing, so again I say that no all of the rounds hit him in the head and essentially did nothing.
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Old January 10, 2013, 09:03 AM   #74
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I routinely carry a snub, a 2" S&W 042.

I've been carrying 125-gr. +P Speer Gold Dots in it for the last several years.

In summer 2010 I had the chance to test some of the rounds by firing them into a trash can filled with water from 10-15 feet away. Not the best analog in the world, but it was what I could do at the time, and Martin Fackler indicates that water testing (via the Fackler box) does give valid penetration information.

9 out of 10 mushroomed perfectly to about .50, "penetrated" about 20 inches of water, and dented the opposite side of the can. The 10th one I didn't recover as it hit above the dropping waterline in the can and sailed into the dirt bank beyond the can.

The Speer ammo is specifically designed to both penetrate deeply and expand reliably at .38 Special velocities, including when fired from a snub.
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Old January 10, 2013, 09:10 AM   #75
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Quote:
I've been carrying 125-gr. +P Speer Gold Dots in it for the last several years.
Thats whats in my wifes LCR.
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