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Old January 8, 2013, 02:00 AM   #201
44 AMP
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Some interesting points Doublea A...here's my reply..
1) Enforce current laws....
Agree! Also would be a good thing if they could NOT be plea bargined..

2) Everything through a background check...
This sounds good on the surface, but I have reservations about it, especially its effectivness. The issues I have with it are, first, the current system is far from flawless. And there is no money to "fix" it, assuming one could. Second, FFL dealers are required by law to run the checks, and the current system can barely handle that. Add in EVERY private purchase in the country, and (without a serious upgraded system), it will crash. Then, NO SALES to anyone, until it gets fixed, right?
Also, I have always had some heartburn with the system. Partially because my institutional paranoia is always worried that some flaw in the system will deny me (my record is spotless, I just worry the system will glitch), and partially because, with spotless record (ok, I've had one speeding ticket in the last 20 years), why should I have to proove my self, EVERY SINGLE TIME I buy a gun? Also, I buy, sell, and trade with people I know, and have known for decades, and I dislike both the idea that I would have to run a check on each of them, EVERY TIME, and the idea that if I didn't, I could be breaking a law. Go back to your point #1. Existing law already states all that is needed.
Also,are you aware that the govt has already had to defend itself in court over keeping the "instant check" records, when the law clearly states that they must NOT be kept?

3. Keep the entire standard so called "high capacity magazines” but we should regulate for example the AR 15 100 round “drum”
OK, so YOU don't care about regulations for example the AR 100 rnd drum. I do. What is a reasonable number? You are ok with 30, but not 100? How about 10? That's what they want. They say its ..reasonable...The problem is that once you admit that a given number is acceptable to be regulated, then it just comes down to who gets to set that number. Like haggling with a hooker....You accept the principle, and then bargin for an acceptable price? No, I don't think so. What is the magic number when a spring loaded metal or plastic box becomes an evil agent of destruction? I don't see one.

4. All people getting CCW or carry permits must take a class.]
Good idea. They should. However, making it a law opens the door to abuse by a system dominated by anti gun politicians and police chiefs...it has happened before, in several places. Bit by bit, the regulations on what has to be in the class are increased, and opportunities to take the class are reduced. What begins as a mandated 3hr class eventually becomes 40hrs of required training, only given 3 times a year in one location, etc. Don't laugh, I've seen it happen. For a recent example of this at work, just look at what they decided airline pilots had to go through to be "certified" to have a gun in the cockpit.

5. All STATES should make their mental health database available to the federal government so we can prevent the mentally challenged individuals from acquiring firearms legitimately.
Again, good idea, on the surface. The real world problem you are going to run smack into here, is the personal privacy issue, and existing law. First point: it was conclusively proven at VA Tech that there are dangerously unstable individuals that are not being "picked up on" and put in the system.
Second point (and main one): Personal Privacy. Medical records. There is a lot of existing law that specifically prohibits this information from being shared, FOR ANY REASON without the express consent of the individual, and sometimes, even then.
Are you aware that Patrick Purdy, the shooter in Stockton that touched off the whole "assault weapon" hysteria back in 86 with a semi auto AK in a CA schoolyard was recieveing monthly payments from Social Security because he was "mentally unable to work"? AND, that at the same time, he bought 2 handguns in California, TWICE going through CA's background check and 15 day waiting period? AND that BY LAW California could NOT be told of his mental condition, as it was a violation of his privacy rights?
ITs a good idea, but the system is already stacked against it being able to work.

6. Increase funding for mental health by reducing the amount of foreign aids given all over the world.
I like this one. In our current fiscal situation, I firmly believe that we should let the rest of the world make their own way and use the money for things in the US that need fixing. The rest of the world managed to survive before the US was able to give them monetary aid, and I am confidant that they can do so again.

7. Finally involve the education of both the risk and benefits of firearms into educational system.
Agree, at one time, this kind of thing was taught in schools. Of course, that was many decades ago, when schools had rifle teams, and were not run by anti gun elitist social reformers....or people who wanted to be...
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Old January 8, 2013, 09:13 AM   #202
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Yes. Enforce current laws!

Quote:
Shall not be infriged....pretty plain and simple to me. If that makes me an extremist then so are were the founding fathers.
And literally within just a few months the very same founding fathers started doing that with the Militia Acts of 1792 by stipulating requirements of arms that must be had. The right to keep and bear arms does include the right to not keep and bear arms, something notably overlooked by the Militia Acts.

Quote:
BTW I can't recall the name of a single founding father famous for his willingness to seek compromise and accommodation for reasonable Stamp Acts, reasonable quartering of soldiers, or reasonable restriction of speech and the press.
Your use of the term "reasonable" implies that there is. "Reasonable" is a compromise in and of itself. Compromise was the basis for virtually everything that came with the founding of a new country, down to the organization of government (The Great Compromise of 1787), slavery, voting, etc. The Bill of Rights involved considerable debate and compromise.
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Old January 8, 2013, 09:47 AM   #203
armoredman
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Quote:
1. Enforce current laws on the books.
Yes. You would be shocked to know how many firearms related offenses are plea bargained away.
Quote:
Increase severe penalties for gun related crime.
No. There is no such thing as gun-related crime. There are crimes committed with weapons, and if you are going to increase penalties for one, do it for all, HOWEVER, be prepared to have higher taxes to PAY for those prisons/upkeep/staff that you will need. That's not a bad thing, but a necessary one.

Quote:
2. Make all firearm purchasers go through a background check, including private sales. The background check services should be a free service.
(If I'm involved in a private sale of firearm, the most important thing to me is making sure the purchaser is a sane individual and not a felon instead of how much $$$$$$ I can make.) At least it should be a moral obligation.
No, Arizona does it right - if you sell a firearm to a prohibited possessor, that's on you and you will get nailed for it. Otherwise, they stay out of it, and I agree with that. Worked for over 100 years.

Quote:
3. Keep the entire standard so called "high capacity magazines” but we should regulate for example the AR 15 100 round “drum”
No, no arbitrary limits. Once a limit is set, it will keep shrinking until single shots are all that is legal. Rebecca Peters with IANSA once said the only gun she would be happy with anyone owning was a single shot capable of shooting no more than 100 yards. All it takes is for the next lunatic murderer to use ten round mags, and start the whole drumbeat over again, for the next limit on my personal property with which I have committed no crimes.

Quote:
4. All people interested in obtaining a conceal and carry permit should take firearm classes. The fee should be reasonable to allow low income lawful citizens to afford these services. If the fee is high it should be allowed to be written off as deduction.
No. First, sounds a lot like the famous poll tax - pay to exercise your rights. I am far more comfortable with my home state's Constitutional Carry, the same as the Founding Fathers enjoyed, the same as Vermont, (48th in the nation for crime, last time I looked), has had since inception.
Now I agree that people should get training, as it's always a great idea...but when you mandate something prior to exercising a right, then it is no longer a right but a controlled privilege.

Quote:
5. All STATES should make their mental health database available to the federal government so we can prevent the mentally challenged individuals from acquiring firearms legitimately.
State records of criminals are about 40% accurate - I shudder to think what the records on the criminally insane look like after the great "kick 'em out of the institutions" wave of the '70s. Also, define mental illness. I have read people seriously espouse the idea that drinking coffee is a sign of a mental illness. What disqualify you, depression, alcoholism, (recovering or not), who gets to make this diagnosis on who's dime and are there ways to get OFF this list? Should it be determined by your meds? I know people who took small does of WelButrin, (common depression med), to stop smoking...they know have a 'scrip for psych drugs on file, does that disqualify them?
Mentally challenged? I have to say that from my admittedly biased view point, that describes many of our nations leaders.

Quote:
6. Increase funding for mental health by reducing the amount of foreign aids given all over the world.
That one I agree with wholeheartedly.

Quote:
7. Finally involve the education of both the risk and benefits of firearms into educational system.
http://www.azleg.gov/ars/15/00714-01.htm

Make the above an elective in high school, or even middle school. Make it as "mandatory" as Sex Ed and Drivers Ed, considering how many more lives are destroyed and tax dollars lost by misuse of both sex and cars than with legally held firearm.
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Old January 8, 2013, 01:18 PM   #204
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There are crimes committed with weapons, and if you are going to increase penalties for one, do it for all, HOWEVER, be prepared to have higher taxes to PAY for those prisons/upkeep/staff that you will need.
It's a heck of a lot cheaper than paying for a federal buyback program.
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Old January 8, 2013, 09:46 PM   #205
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2. Make all firearm purchasers go through a background check, including private sales. The background check services should be a free service.
(If I'm involved in a private sale of firearm, the most important thing to me is making sure the purchaser is a sane individual and not a felon instead of how much $$$$$$ I can make.) At least it should be a moral obligation.
I don't want to sell a firearm to a dangerous person. I don't want to sell him a car, motorcycle, chain saw, axe, machete, or pocketknife, either. This is why dangerous mental patients need to be under supervision. And dangerous felons need to be behind bars. If they're safe enough we can let them out, great. I'll sell them any of those things.

Let's say you really wanted to pass a law that every firearms purchaser had to go through a background check. How would you ever enforce it? There are over 200 million unregistered firearms floating around out there. I have several that don't even have serial numbers. How would you convict someone for selling a firearm without a background check, if you can't prove who owned it?

And how would you implement such a scheme? Make the service free, straight from the NICS database? Who's going to pay for it? The bigger question is who's going to prove you're using it or not using it? Will the ATF open up some office somewhere for you to do this? I doubt it. Are you going to call it in from home? That opens it up for abuse by people who just want to snoop on a neighbor.

The other way to do it, and it's done in other states, is that you have to run every sale through a dealer. I pass my guns down to my kids and my local dealer gets $40 a pop. And he still doesn't know my kid as well as I do.

You could mandate the dealers perform the service for a nominal fee. Another great idea. Just like any other product, when the price is pushed low artificially, the quantity a seller is willing to supply goes down. You're going to the back of the line when your dealer is helping customers who are actually paying him money.

Any such system would have done nothing to prevent what just happened in CT. The guy stole the guns from his mother. All this law would do is discourage gun ownership and trip up honest people.
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Old January 8, 2013, 10:40 PM   #206
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The other way to do it, and it's done in other states, is that you have to run every sale through a dealer. I pass my guns down to my kids and my local dealer gets $40 a pop. And he still doesn't know my kid as well as I do.
Right. All I know is that he can pass a background check, which means he hasn't been caught for something yet. Your knowledge is more valuable.

Furthermore, such a measure would make life harder for dealers. That would increase the paperwork burden significantly.
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Old January 8, 2013, 10:58 PM   #207
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And literally within just a few months the very same founding fathers started doing that with the Militia Acts of 1792 by stipulating requirements of arms that must be had. The right to keep and bear arms does include the right to not keep and bear arms, something notably overlooked by the Militia Acts.
Not really. If you read the Militia Act of 1792 carefully, you'll see that the exemption includes all others who may be excused by the laws of their respective state. Remember, in 1792 the United States was fresh from creating the new constitutional republic and they were very cognizant that they were a republic comprised of thirteen sovereign states. And many of those states were religious colonies, whose own laws or constitutions specifically excused conscientious objectors.
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Old January 8, 2013, 11:17 PM   #208
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Increase severe penalties for gun related crime.
Whatever happened to "Project Exile"? (For the younger or Memory Challenged members, Project Exile was a late 90's program where "gun crimes" such as "felon in possesion of a firearm" were shifted to Federal Court from State Courts, for the harsher penalties).... I just remember the "You do a Gun Crime, You do Hard Time." radio PSA's ......
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