The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 6, 2013, 02:48 PM   #1
win-lose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 2009
Posts: 451
Founding Father's 2A insight

Quote:
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764)
This is taken from Jeffersons own writings and gives insight into his position on the 2A. This goes to the very heart of the struggles ahead. We will not be arguing for the need for a militia, nor the need to fight against our own standing armies, but rather the means the 2a provides to preserve our right to life.

Lastly, I believe that we need to remind ourselves and more importantly our politicians that they (our politicians) are not smarter than our Founding Fathers, nor are they more noble or honorable.

Regards to all.

Last edited by win-lose; January 6, 2013 at 05:19 PM.
win-lose is offline  
Old January 7, 2013, 11:54 AM   #2
win-lose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 2009
Posts: 451
Very interesting study from Harvard (Yes HARVARD!) that supports the above perspective.

Let's hope that as Harvard convenes their "emergency" think tank to battle the "gun violence epidemic" they remember their own work.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf
win-lose is offline  
Old January 7, 2013, 10:12 PM   #3
stormin1155
Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 20
The problem with quoting our founding fathers to liberals and particularly anti-gunners, is they don't care. They don't see the principles forwarded by our founding fathers as being what made this country great. They see them as outdated and as flaws that need to be corrected.

Win-Lose, the Harvard study is excellent. It is even more powerful coming out of Harvard University, considered to be more liberal than conservative.
stormin1155 is offline  
Old January 7, 2013, 10:20 PM   #4
USA SHARK
Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2012
Posts: 37
Many of us have written letters to our Senator's, Congressmen and even the White House. I have done all three, and since I live in Illinois, I've also sent letters to our congress and senate in Illinois. This is no longer about Gun Control, it's about Government Control.

I have actually received two responses from my letters. One in support of the 2nd Amendment and the one below, that when initially read sounds good, but when you re-read it and understand the underlying message, is very troubling. This is how they speak in Government, which unfortunately fools a large number of people.

Here is the written response to my initial letter supporting our 2nd Amendment right (I changed my personal info rather than post it on the internet):

On Jan 7, 2013, at 4:30 PM, <correspondence_reply@durbin.senate.gov> wrote:

January 7, 2013


Mr. Gregory G*****
Crystal Lake, IL 60012-2145

Dear Mr. G*****:

Thank you for your message about gun control. I appreciate knowing your views on this important issue.

Americans are entitled to own and use guns in a responsible fashion. Strong penalties for violent crimes involving firearms should be part of any effort to reduce gun violence. I have consistently supported tough crime control and prevention initiatives since coming to Congress.

Enforcing our nation’s existing gun control laws must remain a high priority. I support efforts that address illegal possession and use of firearms. Common sense restrictions such as the Brady Law and the Assault Weapons Ban are supported by law enforcement officials who must patrol our streets. These laws help protect people from crime and violence without infringing on legitimate hunting and sporting uses of firearms.

I will continue to support efforts that help ensure our nation’s gun laws are vigorously enforced. Thank you once again for contacting me.

Please feel free to stay in touch.
Sincerely,
Richard J. Durbin
United States Senator

RJD/ab

And here is my letter in response. While his letter sounded good to many I shared it with, once we discussed the underlying meanings and vagueness of his letter, everyone understood why we must continue to be vocal about our 2nd Amendment right and resist changes to it, and the other Bill of Rights.


Dear Senator Durbin,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond personally to my email regarding our 2nd Amendment rights. However I feel compelled to respond to your letter as I believe your interpretation has strayed from the verbiage and true meaning of the 2nd Amendment, which states:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Nowhere in the text does it state "owning guns in a responsible fashion". That becomes your interpretation of what "responsible" is. While I want only responsible people to own arms, focus should be placed on ensuring mentally unstable people don't have access to weapons. I do support the Brady Act in so much as completing background checks on potential firearm purchases.

You also appear to support the "Assault Weapons Ban" as being "common sense restrictions", however once again this becomes your interpretation of what an assault weapon is. This is too restrictive and is not the problem causing gun violence.

And finally, you reference laws that "help protect people from crime and violence without infringing on legitimate hunting and sporting uses of firearms". With all due respect Senator, this is very concerning as you are putting words into the constitution that do not exist. The 2nd Amendment does not speak of the right to have weapons for hunting and sporting uses, it speaks to "being necessary to the security of a free State," and that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".

I think it is important to point out that violence is not growing due to legitimate gun owners that are legally exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, including those that own semi-automatic weapons. Violence is committed by people who don't care about laws, and will continue to commit their crimes regardless of an weapons ban.

Senator Durbin, I implore you to reconsider your position on this matter and do not add your beliefs and will to the constitution, but instead place more energy behind being tough on crime and violence. Guns don't create violence, bad people do. Knives, hammers, swords, baseball bats, etc. don't create violence, bad people do. Focus your attention on controlling and/or punishing bad people.

Sincerely,

Gregory G.
USA SHARK is offline  
Old January 8, 2013, 11:13 AM   #5
win-lose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 2009
Posts: 451
Quote:
And finally, you reference laws that "help protect people from crime and violence without infringing on legitimate hunting and sporting uses of firearms". With all due respect Senator, this is very concerning as you are putting words into the constitution that do not exist. The 2nd Amendment does not speak of the right to have weapons for hunting and sporting uses, it speaks to "being necessary to the security of a free State," and that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".
Gregory, I completely agree. This is an attempt to remove the NEED for firearms. Once the need is gone, than firearms will become a luxury that is not "justifiable" in the wake of such tragedies.
win-lose is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07365 seconds with 9 queries