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Old January 4, 2013, 09:46 AM   #26
twins
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The school did nothing wrong here. They just followed their published rules. If you want to "point" the finger for blame, point it at the parents.

Every kid comes home with a "Code of Conduct" policy manual in my school district. The parent(s) should have sat down with the kid(s) and go over the manual. So it should not be a surprise to a parent what is accepted or not.

Is this a gun issue? Nope. I fully agree with a zero tolerance policy when it comes to school violence (active or passive).
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Old January 4, 2013, 10:10 AM   #27
mayosligo
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Zero tolerance rules are zero common sense rules to begin with. It is this trend in the US to make a rule to take the place of administrators administering. But I will agree that parents are to blame. They allow these zero tolerance rules to exist. Because most parents are absentee when it comes to what is going on in their schools.
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Old January 4, 2013, 10:59 AM   #28
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Frankly, twins, my elementary and junior high school had plenty of violence, in the form of at least one or two fist fights any given week. A lot of the guys, from around fifth grade on, had BB gun wars when not at school. But my area did not have school shootings or stabbings.

I sometimes wonder if there is not some advantage in letting kids figure out early that violence hurts.

Kind of parallels how modern parents, in keeping their kids away from "harmful" things like dirt and critters, seem to have stifled their kids' immune systems. Farm kids tend to have fewer allergies...
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Old January 4, 2013, 11:07 AM   #29
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MLeake has it right. Todays kids are too sheltered from the coming realities of life. We've removed playground equipment so the don't fall and scrap their little knees, we don't let them keep score in little league so their feelings don't get hurt. The finger pointing incident is another example of the same. And he's right on the farm kids comment too.
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Old January 4, 2013, 11:24 AM   #30
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Pointing a finger and going "bang" does not warrant suspension. If it's against school conduct (which it shouldn't be if this took place on the playground), it warrant's a respectful warning to the child who probably didn't know any better. If the child keeps doing it in defiance, then a conversation with the child's parents is in order.

A 1st grader pointing a finger and going "POW" is in no way violent. Punching a teacher or hitting another child for spite or in anger is violence.

I don't remember my parents sitting me down at 6 years of age and reviewing a manual of rules and regulations with me. Maybe we should have children attend law school first, before sending them to pre-school, so they will understand all of the asinine rules and regulations passed by school board attorneys!
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Old January 4, 2013, 11:33 AM   #31
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I had a Fraternity Brother from Atlanta ehose mother is a total clean freak, germaphobe, etc. and he is constantly getting sick.

Me, not so much, and I'm a total farm kid. Drove a tractor to school once or twice.

I've always found it interesting that schools seem to get more violent when zero tolerance policies are enacted in regards to pyhsical altercations.

I always thought that by letting boys fight it out, they learn how to deal with things better. But that's probably old fashion and violent.
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Old January 4, 2013, 12:34 PM   #32
johnbt
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"The parent(s) should have sat down with the kid(s) and go over the manual."

The child was 6. Good luck with having him memorize the manual.
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Old January 4, 2013, 12:41 PM   #33
Xaak
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I support gun control

I am a very strong advocate for better gun control. In fact, today I did something using my personal time, money and effort to ensure there is stronger controls in my neighborhood...

I went to the pistol range and practiced my grip and operation of my Kimber Super Carry Pro and my Beretta 92 FS. Nuff Said!
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Last edited by Xaak; January 4, 2013 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Title omitted
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Old January 4, 2013, 01:15 PM   #34
zukiphile
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When will we stop the insanity of arming our children with high capacity assault hands that hold as many as five fingers at the ready to be pointed anywhere an unlicensed child points on a whim?

The entire tragedy could have been avoided with sufficient regulation.
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Old January 4, 2013, 01:17 PM   #35
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Don't worry, Zuki... Senators Feinstein and Schumer probably have some sort of finger confiscation plan in the works.
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Old January 4, 2013, 01:23 PM   #36
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Actually ten fingers
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Old January 4, 2013, 02:01 PM   #37
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this was on the news and I thought how long I would have been suspended for playing cops and robbers and such. good grief what a bunch of loons
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Old January 4, 2013, 02:50 PM   #38
Xaak
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NYC Assault Knife Ban!

I noticed in Bloombergsville where they want to ban everything from soda to guns to super sized fast food, there were four murders in NYC New Years Eve. All were by Assault Knives. You know, the sharp ones, not one suppressed butter knife in the bunch. We need to stop issuing cutlery to everyone, immediately!

We don't have to worry about baseball bats though. Most of the people in the Queens section where the murders occurred are loyal Mets fans. We know they can't hit anything anyway.

(apologies to those of you who are Mets fans.)
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Old January 4, 2013, 02:52 PM   #39
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So dreadful this is, I don't know how this corresponds to the both teams get a trophy crowd. I'm pretty sure it was the same people.
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Old January 4, 2013, 08:56 PM   #40
mayosligo
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They probably would have had no problem if the child pointed his finger like a magic wand though and stolen another child's soul.
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Old January 4, 2013, 09:08 PM   #41
Spats McGee
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Zero tolerance policies: They're a modern way of saying, "I don't have to think any more."
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:35 PM   #42
johnbt
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They've withdrawn/rescinded the suspension and say they'll completely remove it from his file.
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:01 PM   #43
jasmith85
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It may be because I am going to be a teacher in a few years but I like the zero tolerance policies. The reason they are there is to protect the school and its employees from all of the psycho parents that want to sue for their child getting punished for doing something wrong. Before the zero tolerance policies the punishments were chosen by the teacher or the principal which gave the sue-happy parents someone to blame and try to take to court. Now with the zero tolerance policies they can't claim their child was singled out because everyone gets the same punishment. As far as this case is concerned, I think it was right to be rescinded. Kids have been playing cops and robbers or cowboys and indians forever. This was just an example of zero tolerance policies being taken too far.
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:07 PM   #44
MLeake
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jasmith85, you blow hot and cold in one breath.

If you think this was a case of zero tolerance policies being taken too far, then you do not understand how zero tolerance policies work.

Or, if you like zero tolerance policies, then you should oppose the lifting of the suspension.

Frankly, when my son starts school, I hope and pray he has teachers that exercise common sense, and who do not rely on some stupid policy book in the place of common sense.
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:27 PM   #45
rickyrick
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I think zero tolerance policies give people a green light to abuse their authority, and a tool to promote the personal beliefs of those on certain matters.
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:52 PM   #46
jasmith85
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Quote:
If you think this was a case of zero tolerance policies being taken too far, then you do not understand how zero tolerance policies work.
I know exactly how zero tolerance policies work. No matter what the circumstances if you break the rule you get the punishment. I don't know that specific school's rules, but if its anything like the schools I have been around the rule is basically banning all toy guns or items that look like guns. A hand is a body part, its not like the kid could have left it at home so I think it should be exempt from the rule.

Quote:
Or, if you like zero tolerance policies, then you should oppose the lifting of the suspension.
Its not all or nothing. I think zero tolerance does its job but I also believe that a hand isn't a toy gun. I think that it was taken too far when they decided that a kid's hand went against the policy.

Quote:
Frankly, when my son starts school, I hope and pray he has teachers that exercise common sense, and who do not rely on some stupid policy book in the place of common sense.
Teachers aren't allowed to "exercise common sense" as you put it. As soon as one kid gets a slightly different punishment than another for similar acts there would be parents crying foul. The rules aren't there to give harsh punishment to innocent kids, they're there to protect the teachers from these idiots that think they should sue because little Timmy got sent home from school for a day causing them to have to pay a babysitter. The only way things will ever go back to the way they used to be is if schools were given some sort of amnesty from being sued. All of the kids affected by these policies can blame the parents crying foul play, not the school system.
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Old January 6, 2013, 02:13 PM   #47
johnbt
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Well then stop punishing and do something that works - educating, talking, counseling, study hall, detention and in school suspension.

A lot of the former students I used to counsel loved being suspended. Offically sactioned hooky. Want out of school? Screw up on purpose.

What kind of education do you get sitting at home or hanging on the corner?

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Old January 6, 2013, 04:02 PM   #48
mikey5671
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Been there...

Hello. My son is in the same situation. He is 13 years old was at school stood up in class pointed his finger and started going bang, bang, bang. They immediately took him out of class and told us to come get him. He has since been out of school pending a psychiatric evaluation to get back in.
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Old January 6, 2013, 05:10 PM   #49
MLeake
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So, jasmith85, a toy gun is bad but a finger imitating a gun is ok?

What about a stick used to mimic a gun?

What about a GI Joe doll's miniature gun?

IE, "toy guns" that could not possibly be mistaken for real guns.

These examples were chosen because they have all resulted in other zero tolerance punishments.
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Old January 6, 2013, 05:19 PM   #50
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Quote:
People are being conditioned to fear guns, instead of criminals. How can this situation be reversed?
By you, me and all fellow gun owners uniting together and refusing to be streamrolled over like sheep by the antis.

People, it's Man-Up time if we've ever seen it! Get involved in any way you can by joining, contributing, recruiting Pro 2A groups.

Sitting on the sidelines now is to endorse Diane Feinstein's attack .
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